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Beware of the "Lunar Sabbath" by Tom

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eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 28 Jan 2008, 21:24

The 'opinions' that Tom holds did not occur in a vaccum, or as he would have you percieve, the result of unbiased research.

I know 'Tom' very well. After he was exposed by some brethren a few years ago on some unrelated issues, as opposed to repenting and moving on, he sold the business that these brethren had built for themselves right out from under them...their bread and butter was taken (stolen) from them. He also placed me in the precarious position of choosing between him and them. As YHWH is my witness, I believed him to be in the wrong and sided to get him to repent and reconcile with these brothers and their families who were dependent on the business they had built together. As a result of my choice, and his decision to percieve it as a threat to HIS ministry, he fired me from the positions that I held, including that of administrator of his forums which I had held for some time.

It seems that it was also at this time that he decided to take the position regarding 'time' issues that he currently holds. It was no secret while I was there that I had been researching these issues of 'time' while there. In fact, I became a practicing 'lunar sabbath' observer while there.

After becoming estranged by the other brethren and myself as a result of his choices, it seems he also took up the banner to come against the research I had been doing. He banned me from his chat room and from his regular forums and moved all threads pertaining to issues of 'time', particularly as regards lunar sabbaths, to a 'private', hidden forum which was heavily censored and which he would allow me to post. I couldn't handle the censorship and left all together.

Nothing has been more clear to me than the fact that Tom has NOT been unbiased. It cannot be more plain to me, as a result of the personal attacks, manipulation, and censorship which I have endured at his hands for the past 5 years, that he is NOT unbiased (a perception he cunningly grooms).

With that said, let me quote the book of Jude:

'These dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings...(they) speak abusively against whatever they do not understand, and even what they do understand, by instinct. Like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.

These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves...they are wandering stars (planets for whom the satanic week is reckoned) for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.


ObedYah Shocked



Wow. I can't speak toward the other issues, but I will say that his actions on this matter of the lunar Sabbath and the forum are certainly compatible with your statement here.

I go round and round with Chuck, but I believe Chuck has given the subject at least some due consideration. Actually, I believe he knows it's true, however, he is reluctant to make the switch for some unknown reason. But I digress;

The point is, to make an "arbitrary" decision to stand against something without giving it due consideration is unintelligent and lacks honest scholarship. That is irritating in so many ways IMO.

There are some even on this forum who "scratch and claw" against the doctrine without ever having taken the time to really understand it. I have little patience with such a one.

I would much rather discuss the issue with someone who, although they disagree, will be open to siding with the truth, whatever it may be.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

YHWHsavesdotcom
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Postby YHWHsavesdotcom » 28 Jan 2008, 22:27

agreed eriq :|

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 28 Jan 2008, 22:38

eriqbenel wrote:I go round and round with Chuck, but I believe Chuck has given the subject at least some due consideration. Actually, I believe he knows it's true, however, he is reluctant to make the switch for some unknown reason.
Hi Eriq, Thanks for at least giving me credit for "due consideration". As to my "unknown reason", i guess you just forgot, but for the record, it's the "sign of Jonah", and some perhaps lesser reasons.

BTW, i apologize for the derogatory terms i used in my last post to you in another thread. I normally try not to do that, but in that case, i just thought i'd try firing a few rounds back at you. 8)
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

YHWHsavesdotcom
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Joined: 24 Jan 2008, 00:41

Postby YHWHsavesdotcom » 28 Jan 2008, 22:53

The 'opinions' that Tom (aka EliYah dot com) holds did not occur in a vaccum, or as he would have you percieve, the result of unbiased research.

I know 'Tom' very well. After he was exposed by some brethren a few years ago on some unrelated issues, as opposed to repenting and moving on, he sold the business that these brethren had built for themselves right out from under them...their bread and butter was taken (stolen) from them. He also placed me in the precarious position of choosing between him and them. As YHWH is my witness, I believed him to be in the wrong and sided to get him to repent and reconcile with these brothers and their families who were dependent on the business they had built together. As a result of my choice, and his decision to percieve it as a threat to HIS ministry, he fired me from the positions that I held, including that of administrator of his forums which I had held for some time.

It seems that it was also at this time that he decided to take the position regarding 'time' issues that he currently holds. It was no secret while I was there that I had been researching these issues of 'time' while there. In fact, I became a practicing 'lunar sabbath' observer while there.

After becoming estranged by the other brethren and myself as a result of his choices, it seems he also took up the banner to come against the research I had been doing. He banned me from his chat room and from his regular forums and moved all threads pertaining to issues of 'time', particularly as regards lunar sabbaths, to a 'private', hidden forum which was heavily censored and which he would allow me to post. I couldn't handle the censorship and left all together.

Nothing has been more clear to me than the fact that Tom has NOT been unbiased. It cannot be more plain to me, as a result of the personal attacks, manipulation, and censorship which I have endured at his hands for the past 5 years, that he is NOT unbiased (a perception he cunningly grooms).

As regarding answering his objections: If I felt that Tom was intellectually honest I would perhaps answer him. Since I am convinced that is not the case, I would ask all those who are honestly 'truth seekers' to read up on the issues and not get involved with cult personalities. Study to show yourself approved, don't merely approve of someone elses study.

With that said, let me quote from the book of Jude:

'These dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings...(they) speak abusively against whatever they do not understand, and even what they do understand, by instinct. Like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.

These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves...they are wandering stars (planets for whom the satanic week is reckoned) for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

ObedYah

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 29 Jan 2008, 05:49

Hello ObedYah,

Is there some reason you keep repeating the above post? I should think that once would be enough.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 29 Jan 2008, 09:42

You should be able to figure out the reason he done it, I do that sometimes to make sure no one misses it. I thought surely you could have figured that out. :)

of course I could be mistaken because I have done it by mistake also, ever made a mistake?
I guess you saw the 10,000 reward also.

Brother Arnold
Last edited by BrotherArnold on 05 Mar 2008, 12:34, edited 1 time in total.
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 29 Jan 2008, 11:42

Hi Eriq, Thanks for at least giving me credit for "due consideration". As to my "unknown reason", i guess you just forgot, but for the record, it's the "sign of Jonah", and some perhaps lesser reasons.

BTW, i apologize for the derogatory terms i used in my last post to you in another thread. I normally try not to do that, but in that case, i just thought i'd try firing a few rounds back at you. Cool


I never take offense. I always viewed the "mutual ribbing" as the way we expressed brotherhood in our relationship.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

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Watchman555
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Postby Watchman555 » 13 May 2008, 13:35

Shalom All~

Sometimes we just cannot allow “misunderstandings” to go without correction.


by Tom in “Beware of the Lunar Sabbath”

What we're looking at here in Psalm 104 is Hebrew poetry, not dogmatic, legalistic statements. Otherwise, you could even go on to verse 20 and find that ALL the beasts of the forest need to wake up and creep about at least once every night.
In summary, the assertion that all of Yahweh's "moedim" must use the moon is simply not true. The meaning of the word "Moedim" in Hebrew is broader than Lunar Sabbath keepers make it out to be, and when you examine their very rigid interpretation of Psalm 104:19 more closely, it defies the basics of common sense.
We do need to be careful about things like this. Anyone can pull a scripture out of context here or there and it might appear to fit their theology. But in order to fully understand the meanings of Hebrew words, we need to consistently examine the meaning and context of various scriptures. When we do this, the true meanings come to light.


Yah. 10:34-35:
34 Yahusha answered them, “Is it not written in your own Torah (3551), ‘I said, “You are elohim” ’? 35 “If He called them elohim, to whom the word of Elohim came – and it is impossible for the Scripture to be broken

Strong’s #3551 – nomos
1) anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
2) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents


Psalms 82:6:
6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the Most High.

According to the Septuagint the word nomos is used for the word Torah. See:

YeshaYahu 8:20:
20 To the Torah (8451/nomos) and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

Strong’s #8451 – Torah
1) law, direction, instruction
2) the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law


Romans 15:3-4:
3 For even the Messiah did not please Himself, but, as it has been written, “The reproaches of those who reproached You fell upon Me.” 4 For whatever was written before was written for our instruction, that through endurance and encouragement of the Scriptures we might have the expectation.

Psalms 69:9
9 Because ardor for Your house has eaten me up, And the reproaches of those who reproach You have fallen on me.

We can conclude that the Psalms are both Torah and Prophets --

1) By Yahusha’s very Own words, He called the Psalms Torah.
2) Psalms 69:9 seems to be written in the first person and is no doubt prophecy.
3) Whatever was written before was written for our instruction.

So I hope we can all agree the Torah is not just some Hebrew poetry as some might say.

Yahusha said:


Matt. 5:17-18:
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah (3551) or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete. 18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.

Psalms 104:19:
19 He made the moon for appointed times; The sun knows its going down.

eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 18 May 2008, 12:27

Shalom Greg,

You are such a nice guy, I wish I could be as calm about that kind of stupidity as you are. What you wrote above is absolutely beautiful.

The argument that Psalms 104:19 should not be taken literally because it is "poetry" is stupid beyond belief. The "poetic" veberiage of the King James Version is well known, in ALL of the Books. Not only that, even in the poetic use of words and in the "parables" given by Messiah, there is NEVER an UNTRUE statement...

In other words, is the Scripture "inspired" or not? YHWH is not going to "inspire" anything, even a poem, that contains FALSE statements. Example:

"Roses are red, violets are blue"

That may be a "poetic" sentence, but it is still TRUE. Roses ARE red! Viloets ARE blue!

And guess what Tom, the beast of the forest DO creep at night... The use of the word "ALL" is relative to those beast that creep at night. This relativity is no different than the use of "All" in 1 Corinthians 6:12:

6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

The point is, the keepers of YHWH's Sabbath according to the moon do NOT use the term "moedim" in the "broadest" sense. The term "moedim" in Psalms 104 is relative to the "moedim" that are determined by the moon. Namely, all of the worship moedim. We do not claim that ALL "moedim" in every sense of the word are by the moon. We simply contend with honest proof that the Sabbath is among the worship moedim that ARE determined by the moon, which is what Psalms 104:19 is referring to and the "context" of the passage.

As far as context is concerned, I would be very interested to know what Tom thinks the context is? In fact, the ONLY "moed" he has a problem accepting as part of the context is the Sabbath. He would not be making that ridiculous "peotic" argument is we claimed that "Passover" or any other feast day was determined by the moon according to that verse.

His argument, therefore, not only lacks the common sense he claims to have, but is replete with bias dishonesty against the doctrine of Lunar Sabbaths.

Eriq
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq


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