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Prophet Joel and date of True Pentecost

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Chayil_Ishshah
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Postby Chayil_Ishshah » 11 Jun 2008, 16:01

Shalom Cindy,

Just out of wonderment; what could Noah have offered as a first fruits offering? According to Bereshith the earth was dry in the second month on the 27th day (8:14); it wasn't until then that Yahuah said they could get out of the ark (8:17). That gives 2 or 3 days to plant and then crops would have to be ready within 29-30 days to have first fruits to offer in the third month. I'm not quite sure what crop is ready to harvest in that amount of time. Does it say?

The only thing that Bereshith says that Noah offered was burnt offerings on the altar (8:20).

~dawn
Repent, for the reign of the heavens is at hand.

cindy
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Postby cindy » 12 Jun 2008, 08:59

Hello Chayah,

According to Jubilees Noah offered calf, a goat, a lamb, salt, a turtledove, a young dove, an offering of bread mixed with oil, wine, and frankincense when he first came out of the ark. (6:3)

Shebuot means Oaths AND Weeks. I believe Noah was celebrating the Oaths portion when he disembarked.

Jubilees 44 mentions Jacob and his offering of First Fruits one year.
44:1
And Israel rose up from Haran, from his house on the first of the third month and he went by the way of the Well of the Oath. And he offered a sacrifice to the God of his father, Isaac, on the seventh day of that month.
.....
44:4
And he observed the feast of the harvest of the firstfruits from old wheat for there was not in the whole land of Canaan a handful of any seed in the land because there was a famine for all the wild animals and the cattle and birds and also man.

So, the feast is more than firstfruits. It is a remembrance

6:17
Therefore it is ordained and written in the heavenly tablets that they should observe the feast of Shebuot in this month, once per year, in order to renew the covenant in all (respects), year by year. And all of this feast was celebrated in heaven from the day of creation until the days of Noah....

I highly recommend you get the book. It's a wealth of knowledge.

Cindy

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 15 Jun 2008, 08:36

Shalom Sister Cindy,

assuming the book of Jubilees is correct, this could be referring to a firstfruits of the Winter wheat harvest that takes place in the springtime around the first of the third month but there is ANOTHER WHEAT HARVEST in summertime that takes place around the end of the fourth month.

The SECOND wheat harvest has all the Scripture earmarks of Pentecost wheat. It is the one that Aaron calls a Chag, Exodus 32:5 and the one that has grapes present, Joel second chapter and book of Acts second chapter and the one that the law written on tables of stone and given to Moses, Deuteronomy 9:11 etc. I know of no other way to harmonize jubilees with the Scripture.

I think the key is to remember that they were and are TWO wheat harvest in Israel. The Jewish Rabbis teach that the SECOND wheat harvest is the NEW GRAIN of the year and cannot be used until the next year. See http://www.kashrusmagazine.com/magazine.php?do=133 also see Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshon also see this one http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-yoshon-prepchodosh.htm they all show that it is the SECOND wheat harvest that produces the NEW GRAIN, not the first wheat harvest.

Brother Arnold
Last edited by BrotherArnold on 15 Jun 2008, 09:02, edited 2 times in total.
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

yhuhsmessenger
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Re: Prophet Joel and date of True Pentecost

Postby yhuhsmessenger » 31 Jan 2016, 23:47

Cindy, I'm glad to see your references to and belief in the Book of Jubilees. It amazes me how so many brothers and sisters quote books like Jubilees and Jasher when they see how these books support the scriptures in reference to a lunar Sabbath, but completely ignore these witnesses as to the date of Pentecost/the giving of the law. I'm glad to know of your appreciation of the book, we are a rare breed, lol. I haven't read this entire thread regarding the date for Pentecost, but I have noticed some of your references to the Book of Jubilees and the 3rd month and the date of Pentecost and the timing of the covenant or giving of the law. I noticed your references from Jubilees mention the timing of the 3rd month, but I didn't notice the date. I'm unclear as to what date you believe Pentecost is. My understanding is we should count from 23rd day of the 1st month, 50 days, 7 complete weeks (which don't include New Moon days) to the 16th day of the 3rd month, the first day of the week, as Jubilees confirms as a second witness in agreement with the scriptures. Is this what you are now understanding?

And in the fifth year of the fourth week of this jubilee, in the third month, in the middle of the month, Abram celebrate the feast of the first-fruits of the grain harvest. Jubilees 15:1

And she bare a son in the third month, and in the middle of the month, ​​at the time of which YHUH had spoken to Abraham, on the festival of the first fruits of the harvest, Isaac was born. Jubilees 16:13

And it came to pass in the first year of the exodus of the children of Yisrael out of Egypt, in the third month, on the sixteenth day of the month, that YHUH spoke to Mosheh, saying: 'Come up to Me on the Mount, and I will give you two tables of stone of the Torah and of the commandment, which I have written, that you may teach them.' Jubilees 1:1

After these things, in the fourth year of this week, on the new month of the third month, the word of YHUH came to Abram in a dream, saying: 'Fear not, Abram; I am your defender, and your reward will be exceeding great.' And he said: 'YHUH, ALMIGHTY, what will you give me, seeing I go hence childless, and the son of Maseq, the son of my handmaid, is the Dammasek Eliezer: he will be my heir, and to me you have given no seed.' And he said to him: 'This (man) will not be your heir, but one that will come out of your own bowels; he will be your heir.' And He brought him forth abroad, and said to him: 'Look toward heaven and number the stars if you are able to number them.' And he looked toward heaven, and beheld the stars. And He said to him: 'So shall your seed be.' And he believed in YHUH, and it was counted to him for righteousness. And He said to him: 'I am YHUH that brought you out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give you the land of the Canaanites to possess it forever; and I will be Sovereign Ruler unto you and to your seed after you.' And he said: 'YHUH, ALMIGHTY, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?' And He said to him: 'Take Me an heifer of three years, and a goat of three years, and a sheep of three years, and a turtle-dove, and a pigeon.' And he took all these in the middle of the month and he dwelt at the oak of Mamre, which is near Hebron. And he built there an altar, and sacrificed all these; and he poured their blood upon the altar, and divided them in the midst, and laid them over against each other; but the birds divided he not. And birds came down upon the pieces, and Abram drove them away, and did not suffer the birds to touch them. And it came to pass, when the sun had set, that an ecstasy fell upon Abram, and lo! a horror of great darkness fell upon him, and it was said to Abram: 'Know of a surety that your seed shall be a stranger in a land (that is) not theirs, and they shall bring them into bondage, and afflict them four hundred years. And the nation also to whom they will be in bondage will I judge, and after that they shall come forth thence with much substance. And you shall go to your fathers in shalom, and be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall return here; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.' And he awoke from his sleep, and he arose, and the sun had set; and there was a flame, and behold! A furnace was smoking, and a flame of fire passed between the pieces. And on that day YHUH made a covenant with Abram, saying: 'To your seed will I give this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates, the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Perizzites, and the Rephaim, the Phakorites, and the Hivites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. And the day passed, and Abram offered the pieces, and the birds, and their fruit offerings, and their drink offerings, and the fire devoured them. And on that day we made a covenant with Abram, accordingas we had covenanted with Noah in this month; and Abram renewed the festival and ordinance for himself forever. Jubilees 14:1-20

Brother Arnold, with all due respect, you are a pioneer who plowed the way in the beginning to help us new lunar Sabbath keepers see the true seventh day in the scriptures, however, I have to disagree that the fact that the Israelites didn't arrive at Mount Sinai until the 15th of the 3rd month rules out a 3rd month Pentecost/Shabuot/Feast of Weeks. It just means that a 3rd month Pentecost would have to occur after the 15th of the 3rd month, which I believe the Book of Jubilees and the Old and New Testaments declare. It appears it occurred on the 16th of the 3rd month, according to the witnesses. For more information, see my website:
http://studentofyhuhstorah.webstarts.co ... abuot.html

btw, I believe the comment the Jews made about the new believers being drunk on "new wine" on Pentecost in Acts was in reference to what THEY believed to be new false teachings, as the scriptures often refer to people being drunk on the wine of the whore and Babylon. They believed the good news of Yahusha being Messiah and His death, burial, and resurrection to be new winds of doctrine that should be avoided, and were accusing the believers speaking in tongues to be drunk on the new wine of teachings that were tickling the ears of some Jews and gentiles. Peter then stands up and addresses their mockery, and begins to quote from the Prophet Joel and the other prophets about what was happening that day, that they were fulfilling the ancient scriptures and preaching them; they weren't doing or saying anything "new".

Also, there is only one wheat harvest, it begins with Shabuot on the 16th of the 3rd month, this is the offering of the harvest of the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, then the harvest CONTINUES for 4 months (John 4:35) until Sukkot, the harvest festival at the turn of the year. The firstfruits for the 2 loaves is all that is required to be ready for Shabuot, not ALL the grain in the fields. The firstfruits are a small portion, they are what YHUH has caused to be mature before the rest of the wheat. Yes, the majority of the wheat will take 100 days or so to mature, but not the firstfruits. That's how the FIRSTFRUITS got their name. :wink:

Nate Heffley
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Re: Prophet Joel and date of True Pentecost

Postby Nate Heffley » 27 Apr 2016, 13:48

Shalom, from what I'm able to gather up, there are two contending ways in calculating the Festival of Shabuah.

Counting 7 Sabbaths complete by removing or not counting, numbering, the New Moon Days. And the other is 7 Sabbaths complete then a numbering of 50 days. Putting aside the ideas of when a harvest is or isn’t ready for a moment and just examine, topically, the contending day’s events so we can gain a scriptural perspective on the days contending meanings. Contending meanings because the probability of them contending one another, as the men do in attempting to prove or disprove the other on this topic, is highly likely if the events for each of the two separate types of calculations portion out different days and different events.

For the first thought we end up here.. (Strict 50 day count not counting His New Moon Days and keeping with an idea of Counting 7 Sabbaths alone, complete, or the day after, to reach 50 days)

Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunders, the lightning flashes, the sound of the ram’s horn, and the mountain smoking. And the people saw it, and they trembled and stood at a distance,
Exo 20:19 and said to Mosheh, “You speak with us and we hear, but let not Elohim speak with us, lest we die.”

The other thought is here.. (7 Sabbaths complete then a numbering of 50 days)

Exo 32:26 And Mosheh stood in the entrance of the camp, and said, “Who is for יהוה? Come to me.” And all the sons of Lĕwi gathered themselves to him.
Exo 32:27 And he said to them, “Thus said יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl: ‘Each one put his sword on his side, pass over to and fro from gate to gate in the camp, and each one slay his brother, and each one his friend, and each one his relative.’ ”
Exo 32:28 And the sons of Lĕwi did according to the word of Mosheh. And >>ABOUT THREE THOUSAND MEN OF THE PEOPLE FELL THAT DAY.<<
Exo 32:29 And Mosheh said, “You are ordained for יהוה >>>today<<<– since each one has been against his son and his brother – so as to >>bring upon you a blessing today.”<<

Both thoughts are to align with this.. But we know they cannot. Here is the constant in the equation..

Act_2:1 And when the Day of the Festival of Weeks had come, they were all with one mind in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from the heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and settled on each one of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Set-apart Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them to speak.
We know that the spirit divides the error from the truth and the message is..
Act 2:39 “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are far off, as many as יהוה our Elohim shall call.”

Continuing on in the day of the festival..

Act 2:40 And with many other words he earnestly witnessed and urged them, saying, “Be saved from this crooked generation.”
Act 2:41 Then those, indeed, who gladly received his word, were immersed. And >>on that day about three thousand beings were added to them.<<

Question: Does standing at a distance and asking another man to go to Yahuah for you weigh out on just scales or does dividing from the crooked generation, being ordained and receiving the blessing?

What is the message? Who is to receive it? Another for you? Or are we to wield the sword of truth that divides down to the marrow and receive the blessing?

Heb_4:12 For the Word of Elohim is living, and working, and sharper than any two-edged sword, cutting through even to the dividing of being and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword,1 Footnote: 1In Lk. 12:51 the word “division” is used, while “sword” has the same meaning here.
Mat 10:35 for I have come to bring division, a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law –
Mat 10:36 and a man’s enemies are those of his own household.

Eph_6:17 Take also the helmet of deliverance, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of Elohim,

Exo 32:26 And Mosheh stood in the entrance of the camp, and said, “Who is for יהוה? Come to me.” And all the sons of Lĕwi gathered themselves to him.
Exo 32:27 And he said to them, “Thus said יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl: ‘Each one put his sword on his side, pass over to and fro from gate to gate in the camp, and each one slay his brother, and each one his friend, and each one his relative.’ ”
Exo 32:28 And the sons of Lĕwi did according to the word of Mosheh. And >>ABOUT THREE THOUSAND MEN OF THE PEOPLE FELL THAT DAY.<<
Exo 32:29 And Mosheh said, “You are ordained for יהוה >>>today<<<– since each one has been against his son and his brother – so as to bring upon you a blessing today.”

Act 2:39 “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are far off, as many as יהוה our Elohim shall call.”
Act 2:40 And with many other words he earnestly witnessed and urged them, saying, “Be saved from this crooked generation.”
Act 2:41 Then those, indeed, who gladly received his word, were immersed. And on >>that day about three thousand beings were added to them.<<

We see shouting for another man to go to Yahuah for you and having him hear the words met for you or being set apart and blessed by taking out our swords and slaying each his neighbor and brother and taking your stand by being “..for Yahuah..”

Eze_44:8 “And you did not guard the charge of that which is set-apart to Me, but you have set others to guard the charge of My set-apart place for you.”

Now in the Hebrew there is no representation for 1,000, from what I've been given to understand. So, we revert back to the tens..

3~GIMEL (FOOT):{g} The activity or the motion of contained, limited existence or nonexistence. It is ALEPH in BETH.

Contained motion, activity, (work?) of limited existence or nonexistence..

1Co_3:16 Do you not know that you are a Dwelling Place of Elohim and that the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you?

Three thousand taken away.. Three thousand added..

Mat 10:37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
Mat 10:38 “And he who does not take up his stake and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
Mat 10:39 “He who has found his life shall lose it, and he that has lost his life for My sake shall find it.

“Thus said יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl: ‘Each one put his sword on his side, pass over to and fro from gate to gate in the camp, and each one slay his brother, and each one his friend, and each one his relative.’ ”

Exo 32:28 And the sons of Lĕwi did according to the word of Mosheh. And >>ABOUT THREE THOUSAND MEN OF THE PEOPLE FELL THAT DAY.<<
Exo 32:29 And Mosheh said, “You are ordained for יהוה >>>today<<<– since each one has been against his son and his brother – so as to bring upon you a blessing today.”

Today..

Act_2:41 Then those, indeed, who gladly received his word, were immersed. And on that day about three thousand beings were added to them.

Reached when we see this: Lev 23:15 ‘And from the morrow after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, you shall count for yourselves: seven completed Sabbaths.
Lev 23:16 ‘Until the morrow after the seventh Sabbath you count fifty days, then you shall bring a new grain offering to יהוה.

Maybe I’m seeing this in the extreme but it seems that the contenders are either in being Ordained and blessed or calling another to guard the charge Yahuah has for us to guard?
Be at peace among yourselves. And we appeal to you, brothers warn those who are disorderly, encourage the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone Rejoice always, pray without ceasing


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