"The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding"

Beware of the "Lunar Sabbath" by Tom

This part of the Calendar Forum will be devoted to study links. Please use short comments on what the study is concerning and links. This is to facilitate the ease of finding the studies.

Moderator: Watchman555

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Re: Conflict

Postby chuckbaldwin » 16 Jan 2008, 03:37

kathybyers2000 wrote:Am I biased?
Hi Kathy,

I just tried to point out that we are ALL biased, because you seemed to suggest that Tom/EliYah was overly biased. I am "biased" that Yahshua is my Savior and the Son of YHWH, so i'm bound to argue from that basis. I wasn't implying that YOU were more biased than anyone else.
Would it help you to understand that I do not read much of what Arnold posts anymore either? I have no desire to give time to those who are so busy trying to prove a point that they may very well be missing out on the true blessings of YHWH, and further removing blessing from others.
Point well taken. I think that if someone (e.g. Tom or Arnold) thinks they have an important "truth" it is their obligation to share it, even strongly try to convince others, and sometimes they goes overboard. If they really feel that they are trying to "save your eternal life", i can't blame them for their zeal, although it would be nice if they would lighten up a little.
I'm sorry, Chuck if my words offended you. Perhaps you view me as you view others that you "fellowship" with. As a wolf working to remove blessing from your life.
They didn't offend me at all; i only think you might have misjudged Tom's intentions. I can't see his heart, even if i didn't like his methods. And he DID bring some new (to me) information to the table.
But I would hope after reading this statement directed towards you that I am working to restore blessing to your life. You are where you are. YHWH has placed you there. You are loved of Him. I trust YHWH. And I trust that He has you right where He would want you in faith...
I understand what you say, and i appreciate. I agree that YHWH has put us where He wants us, but i question whether He intends for us to STAY there. It's like when you put a racehorse at the starting gate. You obviously don't want him to stay there; you want him to start (& finish) the race, which involves moving FORWARD.
All that being said, I pray that nobody else here has issue with what I wrote. I am unbiased in this - I don't care what you believe or practice,if your intent is to "prove" something through the letter of the law, please know that I will not give it credence and will encourage any who are knocked down by this method of madness. It is the way of the hypocrites to bring others to trial accusing them of being wrong in the way that YHWH has shown them.
Are you saying we shouldn't share our understanding with each other (as in "iron sharpens iron")? I don't understand your "letter of the law" statement, if you mean "what the Scripture says". I want to learn, and it doesn't matter who/Who teaches me (Eriq excepted :lol:)

Also, concerning "restoring blessing" - have you considered that the only way anyone can restore a blessing to me concerning Sabbath observance, is to either prove that the saturday Sabbath is right, OR prove that the lunar Sabbath is right? But that's the very thing that you say is wrong to do. The Sabbath IS a blessing, as i currently observe it. But it would be a GREATER blessing if i were sure i was doing it right. So feel free to bless me. 8)
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

User avatar
Watchman555
Posts: 183
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:57
Location: Northeast Indiana
Contact:

Tough questions need real answers.

Postby Watchman555 » 19 Jan 2008, 17:29

Shalom all,

This is the list of questions that was located at the end of Tom's study and my reply to them.


Questions and Answers about the Lunar Sabbath


1) Please explain Ezekiel 46:1 - how can the gate be opened and closed at the same time?


This is grounded in the premise that there must always be six consecutive working days without interruption. But whether you keep the Lunar Sabbath or weekly recurring Sabbath, the six working days will be interrupted by the feasts like the last day of Unleavened Bread, which falls on the 21st day of the 1st month and the Day of Atonement, which falls on the 10th day of the 7th month.

The point was that the gates would be open when people gathered for worship. The Sabbath and New Moon are the regular exceptions to the gate being closed, but there are other exceptions regardless of whether or not you believe in a recurring weekly Sabbath. Thus, Ezek. 46 proves nothing either way.


Note: This is not based on the premise that there must always be six consecutive working days, this is based on the premise that this Scripture is making a distinction between New Moon days, Sabbath days, and work days. (At least from my perspective)

He said in his study:


"I don't believe anyone reading the Sabbath commandment in Leviticus 23, or Exodus 20 alongside the creation account is going to come up with a "lunar Sabbath" doctrine. There is no commandment anywhere in the scriptures which says:

"on the day following the new moon of each month, six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of Yahweh your Elohim. You shall do this for four weeks. Then, depending on whether the new month has started, you shall not engage in commerce or paid work for 1 or 2 days. Then you shall reset your week into the 'six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest\' pattern."

Obviously, Yahweh never said any such thing, but this is the commandment that most Lunar Sabbath keepers follow. This is nothing more than a commandment of men because it is not found in the scriptures anywhere.


So on one hand he admits that the week can be interrupted and the other hand he says by the lunar reckoning it cannot be interrupted.

Ezekiel 46:1 does prove that the New Moons are regarded as a day of worship and does designate between New Moon days, Sabbath days, and work days.
]

2) How does the prophecy in Lam. 2:6 apply to the Sabbath and Feasts of the Yahudim? ]

They were forgotten in "tsion" because they were carried away into captivity, the very thing that Lamentations is mourning about.


True, they were carried off into Babylon. Through our studies we have found during this time period that the Babylonians were using a lunar calendar. So, how does that prove that they forgot the Sabbaths and Feasts of Yahuah when they were on a lunar calendar and now they are on a 7-day continual? In other words, you would have to say the lunar calendar caused them to forget the Sabbath and Feast days. Yet to this day, they are not on a lunar calendar (for weeks). ]

3) Why couldn't they wait for the Sabbath and New Moons to be over in Amos 8:5 if we are free to buy and sell on the new moons? ]

Amos would have been referring to the new moon of the 7th new moon is the Feast of Trumpets and so Amos would be referring to that.


And the proof is"¦.????? That one was easy enough to explain away. ]

4) Explain the offerings for daily, Sabbaths, new moons; Num. 28:4-15; why are there no provisions for new moon offerings that fall on the Sabbath or Sabbath offerings that fall on a new moon? ]

There didn't need to be. One would just perform whatever offerings were required for the kind of day it was.


Ok, This one is WAY insufficient for my understanding. But we will go with what he said. Now when New Moon takes place what offerings will Tom give when the Sabbath falls on the day of the New Moon and in what order? By the answer given above, it would show that Tom would only give the New Moon offerings, because that is the kind of day it is, but what if Sabbath falls on that day? Then what? Would he give the New Moon offerings AND the Sabbath offerings? Not by what he said, he would only give the New Moon offerings because that is the type of day it is. There is absolutely no mention in Scripture other than the Day of Shouting of what to do if the Sabbath falls on the New Moon. Thus, by the answer above, Tom would fail to give the Sabbath days offering on the New Moon day; because there is only the New Moon day offerings required for the New Moon day (plus the daily continual because that is required also).

Why is there no indication in Scripture of a floating 7th day? You would think Yahuah would have explained this in His word. Or at least have one example of a weekly Sabbath that fell on a New Moon.
Let me try to make this as clear as possible -
]

Numbers 28:11-15:
11 "And on the beginnings of your months you bring near a burnt offering to Yahuah: two young bulls and one ram, and seven lambs a year old, perfect ones; 12 three-tenths of and an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for each bull; two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for the one ram; 13 and one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour, mixed with oil, as a grain offering for each lamb, as a burnt offering of sweet fragrance, an offering made by fire to Yahuah. 14 "And their drink offering is half a hin of wine for a bull, and one-third of a hin for a ram, and one-fourth of a hin for a lamb. This is the burnt offering for each month throughout the months of the year, 15 and one male goat as a sin offering to Yahuah is prepared, besides the continual burnt offering and its drink offering.



Notice " the beginning of your months does not negate the continual burnt offering. It must be included also.

This is exactly what you do on the beginning of your months or New Moon day. Notice it says besides the continual burnt offering and its drink offering. Now lets look at the Day of Shouting; which is a New Moon Day:
]

Numbers 29:1-6:
"And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you have a set-apart gathering, you do no servile work, it is a day of blowing the trumpets for you. 2 "And you shall prepare a burnt offering as a sweet fragrance to Yahuah: one young bull, one ram, seven lambs a year old, perfect ones, 3 and their grain offering: fine flour mixed with oil, three-tenths of an ephah for the bull, two-tenths for the ram, 4 and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs, 5 and one male goat as a sin offering, to make atonement for you, 6 besides the burnt offering with its grain offering for the New Moon, the continual burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings, according to their right-ruling , as a sweet fragrance, an offering made by fire to Yahuah.

Notice " the Day of Shouting does not negate the New Moon offerings or the continual burnt offering.

These verses show exactly what we are to do on the Day of Shouting. Notice that even though this is considered a high day, or Qodesh miqra and has special offerings for the Day of Shouting, it also INCLUDES the New Moon offering AND the continual offering. Absolutely no mention of any Sabbath offerings. No provision for when this 7th day would fall on the New Moon days or the New Moon day Day of Shouting on the 1st day of the 7th month.

Neither of these two verses or laws negate the sabbath day offerings, yet it does not make provision for them.
]

5) Psalm 81:3 - please explain. In comparison with Genesis and they are for signs. Moedim. Is the full moon on the festival day and if it is how do you get to the full moon in 15 days starting with the crescent moon? ]

The full moon will occur during the 15th day of the month if we understand the crescent to be the new moon.
Go to http://www.eliyah.com/moon.html and for Ava, Missouri look at the moon phase for the night of 1/19/07 which gives us a new moon for 1/20/07. Now do the same for 2/2/07. That night the moon is at 100% illumination. I have noticed this a number of times during my own keeping of the feasts.


Ok, so we went and looked in Quick Phase Pro and noticed that on the evening of 1/19/07 there was zero % illumination, so how did he sight the new moon for 1/20/07? Was it a 30-day month, therefore by default this day became New Moon day? His data showed a 1% illumination, I have to ask how 1% of illumination could possibly be visible at the going down of the sun and the sunlight obscuring vision? ]

Now go and look at the Astronomical new moon for 3/18/07. Notice that it's at 9:44pm so that puts the conjunction keeper's new moon day on 3/19/07. Now look up the data for 4/1/07 to see what the moon will look like on the night which begins 4/2/07, the conjunction keeper's 15th day of the month (and Feast of Unleavened Bread actually). Notice it's at 96% illumination, not quite a full moon yet.


Now if anyone has studied Enoch they would know that the actual Full Moon itself can take place from the 14-15th . It says that its fullness is completed on the 15th day. Anyway, by our calculations, we kept 3/19 as New Moon and on 4/2/07 the moon was full.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_pap.pl

"Full Moon on 2 April 2007 at 12:15 p.m. Central Daylight Time.
This link here will provide a discrepancy with Tom; it shows clearly that the full moon was at a 100% illumination on 04/02/07 at 12:15 p.m. in Ava, MO.

Tom kept the 1st day of the Feast of Sukkoth on 09/28/07. Moon rise was at 7:23 p.m. and was waning gibbous with 95% of the disk illuminated. Which means the Feast was not on the full moon.
]

6) Please explain Amos 5:25-27 - who is Sikkuth and Kiyyun and what exactly is this astral mighty one (star g*d) and does it correlate to satyr-day? ]

Kiyyun was a Babylonian idol. Didn't they keep a Lunar week?


Excellent point. ]

Daniel 7:25:
and it speaks words against the Most High, and it wears out the set-apart ones of the Most High, and it intends to change appointed times and law, and they are given into its hand for a time and times and half a time.

The appointed times mentioned here is an Aramaic word when cross-referenced in the LXX, it appears as the same word that is used for mo’ed or seasons in Genesis 1:14. Not positive, maybe somebody with a little more linguistic ability can confirm this. The point is, Daniel seems to be speaking of a future event of these appointed times and laws to be changed. Also, it is apparent that Daniel knew of the appointed times which were to be changed; therefore, if someone says that the appointed times were forgotten while they were in Babylon, how can this be when Daniel himself refers to the appointed times being changed? This could possibly show that the Babylonians without all their worship of the host of heaven, could have been keeping the correct timing according to a lunar calendar.

Besides, didn't the Babylonians have a "Virgin mother" giving birth to a "Savior" just another corruption of the true?

At this site, the Babylonian calender is referred to as a lunisolar calendar. It also says its predecessor was Samarian; which was adopted from Ur of Chaldeans. Interestingly enough, Abraham's father Terah lived in Ur. Now we know that Abraham left Terah somewhat due to the insistent worship of the host of heaven. Another point, just because Terah and the inhabitants of Ur worshipped the host of heaven does not mean that the lunar calendar that they used was corrupt.

As a matter of fact, most of the ancient calendars that we have seen in our studies point to a lunar calendar. Including the rest days/unlucky days/ill-omen days/tabu days being on the phases of the moon. We cannot find a 7-day continuous cycle calendar that dates beyond the Julian calendar (predecessor to the currently used Gregorian). Even the Romans themselves used a lunar calendar. It seems the whole world used a lunar calendar. Can anybody show a calendar previous to the Julian that shows this 7-day continual cycle?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar

This link confirms that even the Babylonians kept the phases of the moon.

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tintirbabyl ... intro.html


"The Hebrew 7-day week ending with the Sabbath, presented so obvious a resemblance to the Babylonian septenary period, which closed with an "Evil day, that scholars have felt themselves compelled to seek its origin in Babylonia. The two institutions, nevertheless, show important differences. The Babylonian cycle, as far as we know, was never employed as a chronological unit; the Hebrew week was a true civil week, a definite and well-understood period of time. The Babylonian cycle seems not to have been dissociated from the lunation" Rest Days, page 253.

http://www.archive.org/details/restdays ... 00websrich

"Civil" according to Webster in referencing time states:
of time : based on the mean sun and legally recognized for use in ordinary affairs

"Hence the indispensability of a continuous week for the establishment of settled life with a high level of social organization, particularly significant since the rise of a market economy, which involved orderly contact on regularly recurrent, periodic market days. Only by establishing a weekly cycle of an unvarying, standard length could society guarantee that the continuity of its life would never be interrupted by natural phenomena such as the lunar cycle. The dissociation of the week from the lunar cycle, is, therefore, the most significant breakthrough in the evolution of the cycle from its somewhat rudimentary and imperfect predecessor. "The Seven Day Circle", Eviatar Zerubavel, Page 10 .

http://www.amazon.com/

“we can definitely see this cycle for what it is " a mere social convention. "The Seven Day Circle", page 59


"The first people to have established a continuous weekly cycle that was entirely independent of the lunar cycle were the ancient Egyptians. Possibly as a result of being sun-worshipers, which essentially freed them from the necessity of observing lunar rites, they practically ignored the moon in their civil calendar" "The Seven Day Circle", Page 10

"To this day, the seven-day week remains a sort of stepchild within an otherwise highly ordered calendrical family, the members of which are all interrelated rather "Neatly" as precise multiples of one another. It seems to be the only cycle that somehow manages to "Spoil" an otherwise perfect time-measurement and time-reckoning system, wherein each unit basically consists of a complete number of smaller units and its beginning always coincides with the beginnings of all units below it. "The Seven Day Circle" Page 61

"The ancient Talmudic ruling that travelers who lose count of the days of the week should nevertheless keep observing the Sabbath every seventh day despite the likelihood of its being the "Wrong" day makes it quite clear that at the very heart of the institution of the Sabbath lies the periodic alternation between the sacred and the profane along a 6-1 pattern. This structural feature is far more central to Judaism than the actual temporal location of the sacred within historical time. "The Seven-Day Circle", page 116. See Talmud source.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/shabbath/shabbath_69.html
]

7) When Yahweh commanded them to march around the walls of Jericho for seven days, wouldn't that have been violating the Sabbath? ]

No. The thing to remember about ancient cities in the land of Israel is that they generally covered a relatively small piece of land. Ancient Davidic Jerusalem was only about 12 acres in size and had a population of about 2000. That increased to about 32 acres in size under Solomon's rule with a population of about 5000. Archaeological finds do indicate that Jericho was fairly small in size:

"archaeological digs indicate the walls of ancient Jericho enclosed an area about 5 to 6 acres in size." (John Garstang, "The Walls of Jericho. The Marston-Melchett Expedition of 1931, PEFQS 1931, p. 186).

In light of this, a person walking around the walls of Jericho would need to walk about 700 yards max. The traditional "sabbath day's journey mentioned in Acts 1:12 is about 1000-1200 yards.


I personally do not have too much to say on this subject here. Perhaps someone else does.

I sincerely desire for better answers than what Tom could give. I don't think that was necessarily a best-effort in answering these questions. I do not think that Tom is interested in an open discussion in front of all concerning these matters. So is there anyone who can give a better explanation to these matters?

~Greg
Last edited by Watchman555 on 19 Jan 2008, 20:20, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Watchman555
Posts: 183
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:57
Location: Northeast Indiana
Contact:

One other question -

Postby Watchman555 » 19 Jan 2008, 19:37

Shalom All~

Exodus 12:3:
3 “Speak to all the congregation of Yisra’el, saying, ‘On the tenth day of this month each one of them is to take (3947) for himself a lamb, according to the house of his father, a lamb for a household.


#3947 - laqach
to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away



It should be fairly obvious that when the 10th day of the 1st month comes that not everyone is going to be able to go out to their flocks and herds to take a lamb. It is no doubt that some would need to acquire the lamb in some other fashion, such as buying it. The word for "take" does include "buying". So the question is; if the 7th-day Sabbath falls on the 10th day of the 1st month what do you do? Or better yet - what does Scripture say we are to do when the 7th-day Sabbath falls on the 10th day of the 1st month.

Example:

In 2003, according to Tom's feast schedule, the Passover was on 04/16; which was a 4th day. Now, that puts the 10th of the month on 04/12. It was a 7th-day; so this does occur. How would one acquire a lamb on the Sabbath? What Scriptural provisions are made for this?

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/webcal.pl -- you will need to type in 04/16/2003 in order to see it.

One might say - Well, we purchased it on the 9th and picked it up on the 10th, so that would mean that you actually examined it on the 9th to find the one you want, the perfect one, then come back the next day and pick it up. Or we paid for it on the 9th and then picked one out on the 10th. If that was the case and lets say the sheep farmer had 25 or 30 people purchase the lamb on the 9th, then when the 10th day, Sabbath came he would probably spend most of his day dealing with the individuals that come to pick up the lamb on the 10th day. Does not sound like a very restful day for the sheep farmer if he is spending it with his customers. Or do you think the farmer would give the customers unhindered or unsupervised access in his sheep fold?

~Greg



kathybyers2000
Posts: 103
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 13:32
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Shalom Chuck

Postby kathybyers2000 » 19 Jan 2008, 19:55

I wanted to answer your question quoted here -

Are you saying we shouldn't share our understanding with each other (as in "iron sharpens iron")? I don't understand your "letter of the law" statement, if you mean "what the Scripture says". I want to learn, and it doesn't matter who/Who teaches me (Eriq excepted )


No, I am not saying we shouldn't share our understanding with each other. I truly believe that we should, but I believe there is a much better way to do so. The way that I am learning and now know allows me to keep my peace constantly when sharing. I no longer state my understandings in a way that works to take anything from anybody else. His sheep hear his voice (We are to listen not just read). If I share my understanding with somebody (who asks) and they simply don't agree, then He makes that okay and I walk on. And the seed has been planted very gently. No forced growing necessary. At that point I leave the matter to the spirit of the All Mighty, whom I trust. Maybe the other seeker and I will cross paths again some day and we will find that we share in more or less understandings. It really isn't relevant to me what others believe currently - I trust YHWH is bringing us all on to common ground. If I see that something isn't working for somebody I simply ask if I can help and if they say so, I share. Sometimes they get upset and laugh very loud (sarcasm). Sometimes they get upset and shut down and change the subject. Sometimes they leave silent and deep in thought. Sometimes they have the epiphany right in front of me and ask for my encouragement in making a change in their lives. Sometimes I see them again, sometimes I don't.

This is all relevant to the building of the kingdom of YHWH within me and on earth through me (my actions and emotions). I am a child of YHWH.

You also stated -

Also, concerning "restoring blessing" - have you considered that the only way anyone can restore a blessing to me concerning Sabbath observance, is to either prove that the saturday Sabbath is right, OR prove that the lunar Sabbath is right? But that's the very thing that you say is wrong to do. The Sabbath IS a blessing, as i currently observe it. But it would be a GREATER blessing if i were sure i was doing it right. So feel free to bless me.


THIS is what I mean. The answer is within you. No man can show you, or prove it to you. You have to go and dig it up. Doesn't the fact that you are still searching for the answer to this matter tell you something? You are blessed in your current understanding, but at the same time TERRIFIED that you are missing out on something greater. Man cannot bless you in this, brother, Your Father desires to give you this blessing. This is your covenant with Him and the only way He can "prove" it to you is through your willingness to obey. My job in restoring blessing to you is only to point you to the One who deserves all glory, praise, and honor. I am only a worker, not the blesser.

When you find the answer to this question you will know the answers to all of your questions regarding this matter. My desire is not to push you, but to guide you and any others who show that they long for answers from YHWH. Please brother, trust that you have the answers to all of your questions within you and go and receive them - they are yours.

I don't know where YHWH will have you when you come out with the answers you seek. But one thing is certain, because of your willingness to seek Him and receive blessing from Him you will remain in His kingdom - and for this reason I praise YHWH!

I pray you have peace,

Kathy

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 20 Jan 2008, 02:23

I was speaking of the extremely bad & WRONG rendering of the KJV, so if you don't use the KJV, then you must be using one that's worded like it, so same difference. Whichever version you're using, you evidently follow its INCORRECT rendering.

As for "NO scholarship agreeing", you're mistaken; there are several versions that render Gen.1 correctly, according to the Hebrew. I guess you obviously haven't read them.


The "bad translation" argument is always the convenient cop-out of bad theology.

I have read many versions, Chuck, and still haven't come across one that supports your erroneous belief. Please enlighten me to the mysterious and obscure version of which you speak.

It won't matter either way, because your argument is based on a BAD and WRONG interpretation of the Hebrew. So even if there is any version somewhere in the cracks and crevices of the translation world that supports your idea, it only means those translators are just as wrong as you are.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 20 Jan 2008, 04:59

eriqbenel wrote:The "bad translation" argument is always the convenient cop-out of bad theology.
Then i guess we should all be celebrating Easter, since we can't use the "bad translation" argument on Acts 12:4.
I have read many versions, Chuck, and still haven't come across one that supports your erroneous belief. Please enlighten me to the mysterious and obscure version of which you speak.
I have already done so, and apparently you weren't paying attention. "The Scriptures" by ISR is just one of many. If you think they are translated wrongly, then I suggest you go look at the Hebrew text yourself, paying close attention to where & how many verbs "to become" occur, and where the conjunctive "waw"s (AND) occur. That's what i did, and it was a BIG SURPRISE.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Re: Shalom Chuck

Postby chuckbaldwin » 20 Jan 2008, 05:11

kathybyers2000 wrote:I wanted to answer your question quoted here -

No, I am not saying we shouldn't share our understanding with each other. I truly believe that we should, but I believe there is a much better way to do so...
Hi Kathy, I completely agree with all you said in your 1st paragraph. But my 2nd item - asking you to "bless" me (read that as "help" me)...
THIS is what I mean. The answer is within you. No man can show you, or prove it to you. You have to go and dig it up. Doesn't the fact that you are still searching for the answer to this matter tell you something?
Yes, it tells me that after 3 years of discussion, i'm not getting anywhere, and need help. But if you're reluctant to share, then i respect your decision. Perhaps you feel it would be improper for a woman to teach a man, and i certainly wouldn't ask you to violate your principles if that's the case. I look at this forum as discussion & sharing more than teaching, but i suppose there is some teaching, so i won't belabor the issue.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

User avatar
Watchman555
Posts: 183
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:57
Location: Northeast Indiana
Contact:

Response to Tom's study.

Postby Watchman555 » 24 Jan 2008, 01:23

Shalom Everyone~

After reading Tom's study I thought that there were a few places I would like to respond to. Not necessarily in order. We will provide links as this progresses.

Response #1 - Concerning Psalm 104:18

http://www.yahuahreigns.com/psalms104.html

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 24 Jan 2008, 04:16

Then i guess we should all be celebrating Easter, since we can't use the "bad translation" argument on Acts 12:4.


There is, in reality, a such thing as a "headache". However, a person who doesn't want to go to work, for instance, may use it as a "cop-out"!

Just because there is a such things as "bad translation" doesn't mean you and your comrads aren't using it as a "cop-out".

I have already done so, and apparently you weren't paying attention. "The Scriptures" by ISR is just one of many. If you think they are translated wrongly, then I suggest you go look at the Hebrew text yourself, paying close attention to where & how many verbs "to become" occur, and where the conjunctive "waw"s (AND) occur. That's what i did, and it was a BIG SURPRISE.


Gimme a break Chuck. I have looked at the Hebrew. It does NOT say what you say it says. You have a "warped" idea of what "hayah" means.

"The Scriptures" is not one of "many". Name "two others" and I'll send you a dollar! In fact, there are more translation errors in the "ISR" version than there are in the KJV all day long.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 24 Jan 2008, 04:38

eriqbenel wrote:Gimme a break Chuck. I have looked at the Hebrew. It does NOT say what you say it says. You have a "warped" idea of what "hayah" means.

"The Scriptures" is not one of "many". Name "two others" and I'll send you a dollar! In fact, there are more translation errors in the "ISR" version than there are in the KJV all day long.
OK, Eriq, U axed for it:

1. Green's Interlinear
2. New World Translation
3. Septuagint
4. Jerusalem Bible
5. Moffatt
6. Lamsa (Peshitta Aramaic)
7. American Standard Version
8. American Baptist Publication Society

In fact EVERY Bible i have in my posession, EXCEPT the KJV & NKJV have it translated correctly. Forget about sending the $; use it to buy some HUMBLE PIE.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

User avatar
Watchman555
Posts: 183
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:57
Location: Northeast Indiana
Contact:

Re: Response to Tom's study.

Postby Watchman555 » 24 Jan 2008, 13:30

Watchman555 wrote:Shalom Everyone~

After reading Tom's study I thought that there were a few places I would like to respond to. Not necessarily in order. We will provide links as this progresses.

Response #1 - Concerning Psalm 104:18


http://www.yahuahreigns.com/psalms104.html

We updated the above link as of this morning. Also, we have another portion 'completed' at this link:

http://www.yahuahreigns.com/Regarding%20Item%20Two.html

kathybyers2000
Posts: 103
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 13:32
Location: Indiana
Contact:

helping

Postby kathybyers2000 » 24 Jan 2008, 13:52

Shalom Chuck.

During your meditation, what answer have you received from YHWH when asking Him which is His appointed day of rest, if you don't mind me asking?

I look forward to your answer.

Shalom,

Kathy

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Re: helping

Postby chuckbaldwin » 24 Jan 2008, 17:43

kathybyers2000 wrote:Chuck.
During your meditation, what answer have you received from YHWH when asking Him which is His appointed day of rest, if you don't mind me asking?
Hi Kathy.

I don't mind at all. I ask that question almost every day, and so far i haven't received any definite answer. :cry:

Chuck

kathybyers2000
Posts: 103
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 13:32
Location: Indiana
Contact:

helping

Postby kathybyers2000 » 24 Jan 2008, 18:46

Dear Chuck,

What I would encourage you to do is stop asking that question. I assure you He is relaying the answer to you, but there is something within you that prohibits you from hearing it.

I would also encourage you to pray, instead, for ears to hear and eyes to see. And trust that the answer to your question will come to you.

You are trying, in vain, to find the answer to a question that is within you, and as long as you look anywhere, but within, you will never find it.

I am excited to see what YHWH has planned for you.

Shalom,

Kathy

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 24 Jan 2008, 22:05

OK, Eriq, U axed for it:


1. Green's Interlinear - WRONG. It does not translate as you claim

2. New World Translation - LOL!

3. Septuagint - WRONG. It does not translate as you claim

4. Jerusalem Bible - ???. haven't looked at it.

5. Moffatt - WRONG. It does not translate as you claim

6. Lamsa (Peshitta Aramaic) - WRONG. It does not translate as you claim

7. American Standard Version - Definately WRONG. It does not translate as you claim

8. American Baptist Publication Society - LOL!

Nevertheless, I'll send you the dollar. Email me with the address.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq


Return to “Calendar Studies”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron