Go to http://www.lunarsabbath.org/ for a complete study on why the scripture does not teach 3 days and 3 nights in grave/Hell
Link courtesy of Brother Arnold.
(link transferred from post in Calendar Discussion)
Moderator: Watchman555
JMSchattke wrote:As I understood it, Yahushwa dies on thursday, and is laid to rest in the tomb. Thursday night began the high Holy Day, and the Jews would do no business; Sabbath came, and again, no business. So the earliest that Magdalene could get the preparations for the grave was Sunday morning, which is what she did, and found the tomb empty.
Now, typically, people claim the year was such that the Passover was Wednesday, which would leave friday for business, between a thursday high holy day and the weekly sabbath. But then, Magdalen would have been going out to prepare the corpse on Friday.
JMSchattke wrote:I did read his treatise. It's making assumptions.
The only timing that makes three days and three nights:
Night one: after being killed, passover evening
Day one: high holy day in feast
Night two: evening of High holy day
Day two: preparation day
Night three: evening of sabbath day (Jewish reckoning)
Day three: Sabbath Day
Resurrected at evening.
He was already risen when the ladies went Sunday morning, and did not spend the evening after the weekly sabbath in the grave.
Because the messiah said so:eriqbenel wrote:What assumptions is it making? Why are you using a 3 days and 3 nights timeline in association with the death and ressurection of Messiah?
Then you make the messiah a liar?This timeline is not three days and three nights,
Ah, this is because you figure somehow that there is only one sabbath in the account, the 15th of Nissan?neither can it be associated with the days of the Gregorian calendar week.
I can accept either the 4th-day (wed) OR 5th-day (thu) view of the crucifixion with some reservations, and your last sentence makes sense. But maybe it took longer than expected for them to buy AND prepare the spices, AND get to the tomb long enough before Sabbath to do a complete job. Your conflicting timeline follows:JMSchattke wrote:As I understood it, Yahushwa dies on thursday, and is laid to rest in the tomb. Thursday night began the high Holy Day, and the Jews would do no business; Sabbath came, and again, no business. So the earliest that Magdalene could get the preparations for the grave was Sunday morning, which is what she did, and found the tomb empty.
Now, typically, people claim the year was such that the Passover was Wednesday, which would leave friday for business, between a thursday high holy day and the weekly sabbath. But then, Magdalen would have been going out to prepare the corpse on Friday.
The above timeline includes (1) the High holyday (thu), (2) the preparation day (fri), and (3) the weekly Sabbath (sat), whereas your 1st quote above doesn't put a day between the High day and the weekly Sabbath.The only timing that makes three days and three nights:
Night one: after being killed, passover evening
Day one: high holy day in feast
Night two: evening of High holy day
Day two: preparation day
Night three: evening of sabbath day (Jewish reckoning)
Day three: Sabbath Day
Resurrected at evening.
JMSchattke wrote:Because the messiah said so:eriqbenel wrote:What assumptions is it making? Why are you using a 3 days and 3 nights timeline in association with the death and ressurection of Messiah?
Joh 2:18 And the Yehuḏim answered and said to Him, "What sign do You show to us, since You are doing these?"
Joh 2:19 יהושע answered and said to them, "Destroy this Dwelling Place, and in three days I shall raise it."
Joh 2:20 Then the Yehuḏim said, "It took forty-six years to build this Dwelling Place, and You are going to raise it in three days?"
Joh 2:21 But He spoke about the Dwelling Place of His body.
Mat 12:39 But He answering, said to them, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Yonah.
Mat 12:40 "For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Aḏam be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mar 8:31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Aḏam has to suffer much, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days to rise again.Then you make the messiah a liar?This timeline is not three days and three nights,Ah, this is because you figure somehow that there is only one sabbath in the account, the 15th of Nissan?neither can it be associated with the days of the Gregorian calendar week.
I don't see how the above disproves it:Watchman555 wrote:By Yahusha's Own Words and the witness Scripture confirms that He could not have spent three days and three nights in the grave
Matt. 16:20-21:
20 Then He warned His taught ones that they should say to no one that He is Yahusha the Messiah. 21 From that time Yahusha began to show to His taught ones that it was necessary for Him to 1. go to Yerushalayim, and 2. to suffer much from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and 3. be killed, and 4. to be raised again the third day.
There are 2 possibilities:Luke 24:21:
21 “... today is the third day since these matters took place."
At this point they were IN the third day. How could He be in the grave for the third day and yet be risen the third day? See the point?
There are 2 possibilities:
1. "These matters" included the sealing of the tomb & setting the watch on the 15th, making the 18th the 3rd day since everything was completed. Note that not every detail is given in every account, so the fact that the "sealing & setting" were mentioned in Matthew and not in Luke doesn't prove that they weren't included in "these matters".
2. A 5th-day crucifixion should eliminate any objection to #1, because the 3rd day since 5th-day is 8th/1st-day, which is the day they were speaking.
eriqbenel wrote:Finally, you are correct there IS absolutely, positively, 100% - conclusively, only ONE Sabbath in the account. ANd I can absolutely, positively, 100%, conclusively prove it to anybody willing to take a look (except Chuck).
Eric, since you like picking on me so much, i give you the same admonition i gave Arnold: READ WHAT I SAY BEFORE YOU TRY TO REFUTE IT! (see above in red).eriqbenel wrote:The Scripture SPECIFICALLY STATES what "these matters" incluide. I don't know why you insist on "redefining" the text Well, yes I do! Because if you don't, your doctrine falls to pieces.There are 2 possibilities:
1. "These matters" included the sealing of the tomb & setting the watch on the 15th, making the 18th the 3rd day since everything was completed. Note that not every detail is given in every account, so the fact that the "sealing & setting" were mentioned in Matthew and not in Luke doesn't prove that they weren't included in "these matters".
2. A 5th-day crucifixion should eliminate any objection to #1, because the 3rd day since 5th-day is 8th/1st-day, which is the day they were speaking.
You didn't actually disprove my 2nd possibility, you only "countered" with an alternate explanation, which REALLY IS IMPOSSIBLE, because the 3rd day since the 14th would be the 17th.A "SIXTH DAY" crucifixion, which was the 14th day of the month, eliminates any objection, because it proves that the 16th day was the "first" day, which is the day the conversation in Luke took place.
I'm glad you quoted that, because the ONLY Scripture that records a "typological" 3-day entombment is the story of Jonah.I Cor
15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that the Messiah died for our sins according to the scriptures;
15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
Already done.Those of you who believe that Messiah was "crucified" on Wednesday, or Thursday, and rose on Saturday or Sunday, please present your Scriptures!
Eric, i know very well that you know what i was talking about, and you just pretend not to, so i'm not going to baby you by explaining it again. You'll just have to DEAL WITH IT.eriqbenel wrote:There is NO account of Messiah appearing to men on the road to Ammeas in Matthew!!! Much less a version that includes "setting & sealing".
Exactly, at least you understood THAT part.ALSO, you know very well that what you are trying to do is BEGIN the count with the "setting & sealing", which is the ONLY way your timeline works with that passage.
The 1st part is WRONG, but the 2nd part is RIGHT. The Messiah refered us to Jonah, so it only makes common sense to go to Jonah for the explanation ("AS Jonah was ..., SO shall the Son of Man be ..."). It's UNBELIEVEABLE that Yahshua drew a precise parallel that all you guys try to deny. He wouldn't have even mentioned Jonah if Jonah had nothing to do with it.The debate is not about what JONAH called 3 days and 3 nights. The debate is about what MESSIAH meant by 3 days and 3 nights...
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