"The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding"

Wheat and Timeing of Pentecost

For the open discussion of all calendar related issues.

Moderator: Watchman555

BrotherArnold
Posts: 327
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 23:22
Location: Conyers, GA
Contact:

Wheat and Timeing of Pentecost

Postby BrotherArnold » 09 May 2008, 12:50

Seeing that Pentecost is about the wheat harvest, why not find out which of the TWO wheat harvest is the true Pentecost wheat harvest. No one can intelligently argue that there are not two wheat harvests in the world today including Israel. We know which one Israel is using for Pentecost wheat but let's find out which one the Scripture teaches should be used.

There are TWO types of wheat harvest in the world today including Israel. It is an absolute fact that there is a wheat harvest in the spring and there is a wheat harvest in the summer but the question is, which one of the two wheat harvest does the Pentecost wheat come from???

Believe it or not it is very easy to conclusively prove which of the two wheat harvest was used for Pentecost. We have a scripture in Leviticus 23:16 that teach us to COUNT seven Sabbaths complete even unto the morrow AFTER the seventh Sabbath, shall you NUMBER 50 days, and then bring the new meat offering to YHWH. Of course this new meat offering would be from the wheat harvest because that is what Pentecost is all about, the firstfruits of the wheat harvest.

A spring wheat harvest would harmonize with counting 50 days from the wave sheaf instead of 50 days after the seventh Sabbath and a summer wheat harvest will harmonize with counting 50 days AFTER the seventh Sabbath instead of the wave sheaf, therefore we must go to scripture to determine which is right.

We all agreed there is a harvest of barley in the springtime and that there is a harvest in the fall from the fruit trees but does the harvest of wheat also come in the springtime or is it midway between the two feasts, in the summertime? If the wheat harvest is in the springtime, then what is the summer harvest that the Scripture refers to over and over again?

Here are a few Scriptures to support the fourth month summer fruit/wheat harvest:

Proverbs 10:5
"He that gathereth in SUMMER is a wise son: but he that sleepeth in "HARVEST" is a son that causeth shame."

Notice the connection with summer and harvest.

Proverbs 26:1
"As snow in "Summer", and as rain in "Harvest", so honor is not seemly for a fool."

Again, notice the connection.

Isaiah 16:9
"9Therefore I will bewail with the weeping of Jazer the vine of Sibmah: I will water thee with my tears, O Heshbon, and Elealeh: for the shouting for thy "SUMMER" fruits and for thy HARVEST is fallen (shouting for summer harvest not spring harvest). 10And gladness is taken away, and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the VINEYARDS there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting: the treaders shall tread out no WINE in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease."

Notice here the summer fruits of the harvest AND the wine are connected. Remember the prophecy in Joel 2 teaches the floors would be full of wheat in the wine presses full of wine when the Holy Spirit was poured out.

Isaiah 17: 5-6
"And it shall be as when the HARVESTMAN gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the VALLEY of Rephaim.
6Yet "Gleaning Grapes" shall be left in IT (Valley), as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith YHWH the Mighty One of Israel".

Notice here, the harvest men gather the wheat in the Valley and what's left of the grapes they left in the Valley which proves the grapes were ripe before the harvest as Philo says; they just didn't go back and GLEAN them.

Isaiah 18:4-6
“For so the MASTER said unto me, I will take my "rest", and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the "heat of harvest." 5For "afore" the harvest, when the bud is perfect and the sour grape is" ripening" in the flower,”

The Tanach reads, " for thus said YHWH to me: I will be at ease and I will look after my place of Foundation; like crisp warmth after the rain, like a mist in the "heat" of the harvest. For "before" "the" harvest, when the flower is finished and the bud turns to "grapes approaching ripeness,"

Notice here that this is speaking of a summer wheat harvest and says "before" the harvest the grapes are approaching ripeness". The Grapes Are Not Approaching Ripeness in the springtime.

The phrase "THE harvest" not a harvest of wheat seems to imply that there was only one major wheat harvest and that was in the summer which rules out any possibility of a springtime wheat harvest and counting only one day after the seventh Sabbath complete.

"6They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall "Summer" upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them. 7In that time shall "the present" be brought unto YHWH of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name YHWH of hosts, the mount Zion".

I believe "the present" that is spoken of here is the first fruit of the summer wheat harvest because it shows that the present/first fruit is brought during the summer and presented to YHWH. The above and nature demands an understanding of Leviticus 23:16 to mean 50 days after the seventh Sabbath complete instead of the wave sheaf.

Jeremiah 8: 20
"The harvest is past, the "summer" is ended, and we are not saved."
This verse shows that the harvest was in the summer NOT "Spring" because it does not say the harvest is past and spring is ended. Proven once again it is a summer harvest not Spring harvest. Of course the fall harvest would follow the summer harvest.

I could list a lot more but you might forget my original thought which was to show that we have a conclusive barley harvest in the spring and a conclusive fall harvest of the fruit trees and if the Pentecost harvest is in the spring as most suggests, what is this summer harvest that the scripture speaks of over and over again???

I would also like to point out that our Saviour Himself teaches a summer wheat harvest when he says that after FOUR months, then comes the harvest. This has to be speaking of the summer wheat harvest which matures in four months, from seed time to harvest. It is sown in the first month Abib/spring and is reaped in the fourth month/summer which is seven Sabbaths plus 50 days and then you can bring a first fruit from it/summer fruit.

In John 4: 35 it says:
"say not ye ., there are yet four months then cometh the harvest"

Winter wheat is at least 6 or 7 months to harvest and not 4 months. It is agriculturally impossible for Winter wheat to mature in four months. Our Saviour said it was four months to harvest, and as I have said, winter wheat can NOT be found in scripture and therefore is not even an option for Pentecost wheat. The savior even typed Himself as a grain of Summer Wheat that dies in the spring and brings fourth fruit in the summer and we know that He died in the FIRST month (Abib) and Winter wheat died in the SEVENTH month (September or October). He typed himself as summer wheat, not Winter wheat.

John-12:24 says,
24….."Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of "wheat" fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. ….
27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. …..32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33This he said, signifying what death he should die".

Notice once again a corn of wheat can NOT bring forth a harvest in 50 days and I can not picture our Saviour not using a TRUE analogy. He was buried in the 1st month, same as summer wheat is and a harvest of soles was reaped on the day of Pentecost in the fourth month. There is no way to reap a harvest from a corn of wheat that is sown in the first mont, in 50 days, it is agriculturally impossible but 50 days AFTER 7 Sabbaths you can. It will be the same day and time of the year that the Law was given to Moses and the same day Aaron called it a CHAG, which is only used for Pilgrim feast, and it was in the Summer time and it was 50 days after the seventh Sabbath.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 09 May 2008, 16:34

Rather than respond to every paragraph (which i have done before on the "other" forum), i'll just post a verse to remind the readers that there are only TWO seasons in Scripture:
Seedtime, which is WINTER, and Harvest, which is SUMMER (this includes the WHOLE harvest, from what we call early Spring to early Fall).
Gen.8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Therefore, any attempt to assign a certain harvest to "spring" as opposed to "summer", based solely on the occurrence of the word "summer" is simply in error and misleading.
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

BrotherArnold
Posts: 327
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 23:22
Location: Conyers, GA
Contact:

Postby BrotherArnold » 09 May 2008, 17:55

chuckbaldwin wrote:Rather than respond to every paragraph (which i have done before on the "other" forum), i'll just post a verse to remind the readers that there are only TWO seasons in Scripture:
Seedtime, which is WINTER, and Harvest, which is SUMMER (this includes the WHOLE harvest, from what we call early Spring to early Fall).
Gen.8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Therefore, any attempt to assign a certain harvest to "spring" as opposed to "summer", based solely on the occurrence of the word "summer" is simply in error and misleading.


RESPONSE; Shalom Brother Chuck,

I believe it is you that is in error and misleading.

The summer harvest is a SPECIFIC term which refers to the summer harvest or a single harvest. If all THREE harvest feasts were in the summertime as you suggest, there would be no need to say THE summer harvest/singular. The summer harvest is different from the spring and fall harvest.

To prove my point I will take you to an eye witness who was there and who can tell you that the four seasons were understood during the time of our Saviour. Just because the Scripture says that summer and winter will continue does not mean there's no spring and fall. They could have had other words that referred to spring and fall such as brother Matthew believes that the Hebrew word LATTER refers to spring and when it tells about the Latter rain it is referring to SPRING rain. You can verify this in Strong's concordance. Just because you and I don't know what words they used for the spring and fall, does not mean it is not exist. Now for the eye witness that was there when they were keeping the three seasonal feasts during the time of our Saviour and the Apostles and the Temple was still standing.
Philo, ON THE CREATION

“And in addition to the four elements the seasons of the year are also four, which are the “causes” of the “generation” of animals and “plants”, the year being divided into the quadruple division of winter, and “spring”, and “summer”, and “autumn”.
XVII. (53) The aforesaid number therefore being accounted worthy”

Notice he says these four seasons Winter, and Spring, and Summer, and Autumn, are cause of the generation of animals and “plants”
In other words you have three harvest feasts each year, barley plants in the spring, wheat plants in the summer, and the annual fruits of the trees etc. in the autumn.

I have heard your argument that all harvest was Summer time, but that is not acceptable because Philo says, “And in addition to the four elements the seasons of the year are also four, which are the “causes” of the “generation” of animals and “plants”, the year being divided into the quadruple division of winter, and “spring”, and “summer”, and “autumn” and he would know better than you and I put together.

You are right, we have discussed this before and you fought against it and rejected it then and probably will reject it now but someone else might listen to the facts and eye witness. Not only Philo but Josephus also spoke of the four seasons and for you to suggest the Scripture only teaches two seasons just because you don't understand that there is a specific summer harvest/crop that does not referred to all three crops/harvests. You might also notice that the words summer harvest is singular. It does not say the summer harvests, plural, but refers to it as the summer harvest singular. You need to help us try to find the truth instead of being so negative about everything. These feast can be pinpointed Brother Chuck and the elect will see them no matter how hard the adversary tries to get us off track.

Again, there are four seasons even if spring and fall are not specifically mentioned by those words. The Scripture does not specifically mentioned that there is a 13th moon but we know there is a 13th moon approximately every third year and the book and Ezekiel teaches it but I know people that still argue there's not a 13th moon no matter what the Scripture and nature teaches.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info


Return to “Calendar Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron