"The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding"

Grooming for the Kingdom

Moderator: Watchman555

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Grooming for the Kingdom

Postby cindy » 20 Apr 2008, 12:21

Shalom Everyone,

I would just like to add something very simple to the discussion concerning the Lunar Sabbath and other calendar issues.

It is very simple.

So simple I think many of us miss it because we are looking in the past for the answers instead of the future.
Myself included.

I am convinced myself of the Lunar Sabbath. This fact being the clincher.....

YHWH in HIS coming Kingdom is NOT going to use pagan names for the days of the week.
Nor is HE going to use pagan months.

Just like Ezekiel said...

46:1Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

That's it. For those in contention with this and want to stay with Saturday rest they can rest on Saturday
OUTSIDE THE GATE OF THE TEMPLE.

Let's talk about how YHWH is grooming us for HIS Millenial Kingdom and how best we can show ourselves approved to YHWH and not to other men/women.

Have a Wonderful Pesach.

Cindy

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 22 Apr 2008, 18:42

so when he has it closed 6 days, and open on the 7th, does he keep it open or shut for the day or two waiting for the new moon?

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 22 Apr 2008, 19:15

Good question.
Why don't you ask the Father in prayer and let us know.
As far as I'm concerned HE can keep them open or shut them.
He is the Loving Father who redeemed me from the pit.

I personally don't need to know at the moment.

The question posed is how can we help one another move through this because, going through leaving the church and then resting on Saturday and now leaving that for the most ancient way, we can be sure the testing will increase to refine us.

Can any of you think of a better way NOW to pull us even more out of Babylon than to totally abandon the calendar Gregorian/modern Jewish in our worship?

Wow, I'm amazed at how my life revolved around something so obviously pagan.
And I even consciously tried three years ago to purge everything pagan from my worship.
How could I have missed it.

Does anybody feel like the Holy Ruach is leading us, refining us?
I do.

This coming year is going to be a "killer of the flesh" for me.
I usually do Thanksgiving dinner and we have Shabbat with a two day NEW Moon. All my relation will think I am more nuts than before. Before I could always say that my faith was a sect of Judaism. Not anymore.
WE are going to get a big dose of what the early believers lived when they were sandwiched between the Jews and Christians.

Too, big camping trip in August. Same situation.

I will have to choose either to please the Father or please my family.
After being "born again" (er conceived) nothing that happens to me is coincidence.

Cindy

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Re: Grooming for the Kingdom

Postby chuckbaldwin » 04 May 2008, 16:07

cindy wrote:That's it. For those in contention with this and want to stay with Saturday rest they can rest on Saturday OUTSIDE THE GATE OF THE TEMPLE.
Hello Cindy,

That statement seems a little "contentions" in itself, not to mention unfairly judgemental. Some of us sat-Sabbath folks aren't "in contention" - we just have a different understanding of the Scriptures involved, including Mt.12:40.

I'm reminded of the attitude of the WCG, which was basically if you didn't agree with HWA, you were "causing division" / "in contention", and they put you "OUTSIDE THE GATE", so to speak.

p.s. It's good to see the forum is back in operation.
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 05 May 2008, 16:24

Hello Chuck,

Yes, bold face does seem contentious when it draws attention to the statement. We are passed the catholic, lutheran, methodist, WCG, jewish messianic, etc. We are in new territory, so to speak. We are not christian and we are not jewish and we are not messianic. None of these groups will have us. We are on the Body of Messiah and we are in pursuit of the Truth and want to live our lives to please the Father and do His Will.

When I mentioned outside the gate this is in direct relation to the verse in
Ezekiel. I'm not going to keep anyone outside of the gates. I'm just saying if you are incorrect that is what will happen.


I've read a number of current works and the picture I am getting honestly is that the seven day week as we know it did not get settled until late first to the third century. Certainly after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
In the coming weeks I hope to do research in the Jerusalem/Palestinian Talmud to see what was going on with the calendar. The last I read there was a fight between the Babylonian Rabbis and the Jerusalem Rabbis over controlling the calendar after 70 CE.

More later,
Cindy

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 06 May 2008, 00:52

cindy wrote:I've read a number of current works and the picture I am getting honestly is that the seven day week as we know it did not get settled until late first to the third century. Certainly after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
In the coming weeks I hope to do research in the Jerusalem/Palestinian Talmud to see what was going on with the calendar. The last I read there was a fight between the Babylonian Rabbis and the Jerusalem Rabbis over controlling the calendar after 70 CE.
I'd like to see indisputable proof of that, because Michael Rood says he has proof that the 7 day continual 7th day has continued uninterupted since before Yahushua's time

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 06 May 2008, 04:47

cindy wrote:When I mentioned outside the gate this is in direct relation to the verse in
Ezekiel. I'm not going to keep anyone outside of the gates. I'm just saying if you are incorrect that is what will happen.
Hi Cindy,

Whew! I'm relieved to know that you're not going to "keep anyone outside the gates". Of course someone would first have to GO "outside the gates" in order to be KEPT outside.

May i offer an alternate view of "what will happen" to those who are "incorrect"? (And that could be YOU or ME or BOTH of us.) I believe that YHWH will sit us down and gently explain how certain Scriptures may have been mistranslated, and/or how we misunderstood them. Then we will gladly accept His explanation, and thus REMAIN INSIDE THE GATES, where we had been all along. That's what i think will happen.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 06 May 2008, 18:34

Kickme and chuck Hello,


Let me understand this clearly ...

1. the New Moon Feasts

2. Pesach on a Full Moon with two Holy convocations, the second being on a 1/4 waning moon.

3. Shavuoth on a Full Moon (according to Jubilees and Jewish encyclopedia)
The Targum directly contradicts this.

4. Rosh Hashanah New Moon

5. Sukkot on a Full Moon with two Holy convocations, the second being on a 1/4 waning moon.

Are you saying all the Holy Appointed Feasts are determined by the Moon, but not the Seventh day Sabbath?
I think this is what you are saying.

What I am saying, and I think makes more sense, is that all Holy Appointed Times are a Sabbath including the Seventh Day and they all are determined by the Moon. And as you know some of those days carry more of a significance than others hence the term "High Sabbath" Day.

Over the week of Unleavened bread I was confused over having a Holy convocation on the 15th of Nisan and then another seven days later on the 21st. That is only five work days. Then I reread the passages closer and realized that yes you have unleavened bread for seven days 15-21, but the six days of labor are from the 16th to the 21st which makes the 22nd the Holy convocation.

Same goes for Tabernacles.

I'm frankly glad to be freed from the bondage of manmade religion and now manmade time. I still think this is all part of a grand plan to bring us out of Babylon, divorce us from manmade time for our worship anyway, and raise our consciousness to YHWH's TIME.

Cindy

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 07 May 2008, 02:51

cindy wrote:Kickme and chuck Hello,
Are you saying all the Holy Appointed Feasts are determined by the Moon, but not the Seventh day Sabbath? I think this is what you are saying.
Hi Cindy,

Yes, that's about the size of it. My current understanding is that the annual Sabbaths are determined by the moon by virtue of Scripture designating specific dates of each month (except of course Pentecost, which seems to be counted from an un-dated weekly Sabbath). Since Scripture gives no specific monthly dates for the weekly Sabbath, i go by the reasonable assumption that it is a continually repeating 7-day week. I must add, that for Yahshua to have been killed on Abib 14, and resurrected 3 days + 3 nights later (either at the end of the Sabbath or early on the 1st day), it would be impossible for the weekly Sabbath to be on the 15th.
Over the week of Unleavened bread I was confused over having a Holy convocation on the 15th of Nisan and then another seven days later on the 21st. That is only five work days. Then I reread the passages closer and realized that yes you have unleavened bread for seven days 15-21, but the six days of labor are from the 16th to the 21st which makes the 22nd the Holy convocation.
Actually the 5 days in question (16-20) aren't "work days"; they are all "festival days". I'm not sure what is confusing about a 7-day Festival having holy convocations on the 1st & 7th days.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

User avatar
yahuahreigns
Site Admin
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:34

Postby yahuahreigns » 09 May 2008, 05:03

(Originally posted by Cindy)

Hello Chuck,

Since Scripture gives no specific monthly dates for the weekly Sabbath, i go by the reasonable assumption that it is a continually repeating 7-day week. I must add, that for Yahshua to have been killed on Abib 14, and resurrected 3 days + 3 nights later (either at the end of the Sabbath or early on the 1st day), it would be impossible for the weekly Sabbath to be on the 15th.


Let's take a look at the week/calendar you are using.
According to your reckoning Yahshua was resurrected on the Sabbath 17th late in the day or on the 18th early.
That would mean Yahshua arrived in Jerusalem on the 10th of Nisan which would be a Sabbath, to your reckoning, meaning He broke the Sabbath and everyone else did too because that is the day they chose the lambs.
Sun ---- Mon ---- Tues ----- Wed ------ Thurs ------ Fri ------ Sat
11 ---- 12 ---- 13 ----- 14 ----- 15 ----- 16 ---- 17

3 days and 3 nights does not mean in the grave.
"Heart of the Earth" is when Yahshua became sin for us and took His vow of not drinking the fruit of the vine until the "Kingdom come" and told us this wine is His blood "remember me" and this bread is my body "take it and eat". The Last Supper late on the 13th happened so that he would fulfill the 3 days/nights in the "heart of the earth" and rise again on the Wave sheaf of First Fruits.

Yahshua had to become sin before payment could begin or the blood he shed during His suffering was wasted!

Nisan 13 before sundown was Last Supper.
Early in the morn on the 14th day He was betrayed.
At 3pm Nisan 14th He died on the tree.
15th High Sabbath
He rose early on the 16th- The Wave Sheaf of the First Harvest.
Fulfilling this commandment with His bodily resurrection.

1 Cr 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This sequence is the 3 days and nights in the "heart of the earth".
The next Sabbath after the 15th was the 22nd of Nisan.

Cindy

User avatar
yahuahreigns
Site Admin
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:34

Postby yahuahreigns » 09 May 2008, 05:04

(Originally posted by chosen)

Michael Rood says he has proof that the 7 day continual 7th day has continued uninterupted since before Yahushua's time.


i'd like to see mr. rood's "indesputable" proof.

we know that that can not be true, there were times when the so-called week was 7, 8, or 10 days long. you can look it up in any encyclopedia.

shalom,

chosen

User avatar
yahuahreigns
Site Admin
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:34

Postby yahuahreigns » 09 May 2008, 05:05

(Originally posted by chuckbaldwin)

chosen wrote:
Michael Rood says he has proof that the 7 day continual 7th day has continued uninterupted since before Yahushua's time.
i'd like to see mr. rood's "indesputable" proof.

we know that that can not be true, there were times when the so-called week was 7, 8, or 10 days long. you can look it up in any encyclopedia.
Hi "Chosen",

I'm sure Mr. Rood was referring to the Hebrews' week, as opposed to the Romans' week. Sometimes people get the 2 confused with each other. I think i have seen his proof, but don't recall what it was right now. It seemed reasonable at the time.

User avatar
yahuahreigns
Site Admin
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:34

Postby yahuahreigns » 09 May 2008, 05:06

(Originally posted by chuckbaldwin)

cindy wrote:Let's take a look at the week/calendar you are using.
According to your reckoning Yahshua was resurrected on the Sabbath 17th late in the day or on the 18th early.
That would mean Yahshua arrived in Jerusalem on the 10th of Nisan which would be a Sabbath, to your reckoning, meaning He broke the Sabbath and everyone else did too because that is the day they chose the lambs.
Hi Cindy,

Yes, the 10th would've been a Sabbath; please explain briefly WHY you think they would've broken it. Choosing the lambs wouldn't've broken it, since that was part of the required religious observance.
3 days and 3 nights does not mean in the grave.
The prophet Jonah disagrees with you; please see my post under the "Calender Discussion" - "Sign of Jonah/passover lamb" topic.

Also, can you give a Scripture that supports your view that "heart of the earth" means "becoming sin"?

Please understand that i've been debating this for 4 years, and the main reason i'm discussing it with you is because we're fairly new to each other, and i only want you to understand where i'm coming from. Not to be contentious or to suggest that you change your views.

User avatar
yahuahreigns
Site Admin
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:34

Postby yahuahreigns » 09 May 2008, 05:06

(Originally posted by Cindy)

Hello Chuck,

Yes, the 10th would've been a Sabbath; please explain briefly WHY you think they would've broken it. Choosing the lambs wouldn't've broken it, since that was part of the required religious observance.


Chuck, you cannot be serious and think that choosing the lamb for Pesach would not be breaking the Sabbath? The Torah forbids even looking for sticks for a fire and you think it's fine to go rummaging through a herd of sheep looking for one that does not have a blemish? On the Sabbath?
This is work, Chuck.
If you want to disregard this that is your choosing.
I on the other hand have tried always to figure out any discrepancies because it will all make sense at some point. These issues bring us closer to the truth of the matter.


Too, choosing the Pesach lamb was not a "religious service". It is a Torah statute. The Israelite people were not the Temple Priests on duty carrying out the daily sacrifices, etc. and so exempt from the no work/Sabbath commandment.
Unless of course it involved human life. But, that is not what we are talking about.


Also, can you give a Scripture that supports your view that "heart of the earth" means "becoming sin"?


Do you really need verses to explain that?
Reread the parables and you will see the "earth" symbolizes men's hearts.
Read the numerous verses that tell how wicked men's hearts are.

The minute Yahshua was separated from the Father is when he was "in the heart of the earth". Only sin separates us from the Father not the grave.

There is no debate here. I have adjusted my thinking/beliefs as the Kadosh Ruach has led me through study. These discussions just make us think and read more of the Word to see if what is said is true or false and to evaluate our own motives as to why we think the way we do. We need to think as the Master thought so we can get as close to the Father as possible. We need to be humble and our own worst critic.

Cindy

User avatar
yahuahreigns
Site Admin
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:34

Postby yahuahreigns » 09 May 2008, 05:07

(Originally posted by chuckbaldwin)

Hi Cindy,

I don't want to create too much negativity by endless counter-arguments, so at this point i'll just agree to disagree and let it rest (much to the chagrin of my carnality). :oops: :mrgreen:


Return to “Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron