"The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding"

2 Timothy 2:24-26

Moderator: Watchman555

ErichMatthewJanzen
Posts: 51
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 12:16
Location: Conyers, GA
Contact:

2 Timothy 2:24-26

Postby ErichMatthewJanzen » 06 Mar 2008, 12:06

And YHWH's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness. [The] Almighty may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. [2 Timothy 2:24-26, RSV]

I want to admonish everyone to read this passage before posting. I've seen alot of strife-full words on this forum lately, and this is not how things ought to be. We should be able to discuss matters respectfully.

Yah bless!
Matthew Janzen

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 06 Mar 2008, 16:26

I agree Matthew, and i will TRY to do my part.
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

LittleKangaDrinkingWine
Posts: 31
Joined: 01 Feb 2008, 03:02
Location: Flintstone GA, Israel

Postby LittleKangaDrinkingWine » 06 Mar 2008, 17:05

I admit, I do not always hold true to do this. Whenever I get into a tit for tat biblical discussion, it's like I fall into a trap Satan has set for me and I feel so bad. I should be higher than that. We all should.

There are some on this forum that clearly do not see this. They feel like their point should be taken as law and are ready to cut their brother or sister down to make that point clear. Fear drives this mind set and there is no love in fear. When freedom reigns, YHWH Spirit can work. Freedom is the exact opposite of fear or bondage.

I do not come here often for that very reason. There are some here who are bullies and can not stand to even read an opposing view.

These are my thoughts anyway,

Little Kanga who drinks in the pure wine of doctrine spoken on in the scriptures

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 06 Mar 2008, 23:52

Shalom All,

I agree that the somethings are disrespectful and strife-full. However, there are some things that some would consider disrespectful and strife-full that aren't.

I agree some things may be out of place, but there is a time and place for everything, even rebuke and anger.


I Tim
5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Tim
4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.


Titus
2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great Elohim and our Saviour the Messiah;
2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.




I can take responsibility if and when I seemed "disrespectful", but I will not be sorry for letting those who spread lies and false doctrine know it. And if that causes strife in some, it is supposed to.

It does not violate 2 Timothy 2:24-26 to tell someone "you're wrong" or "that is false doctrine". Do not mistake candor for "disrespect".


WITHIN the body of Messiah, there should certainly be patience and gentleness, but to those who are Dissenters, False Teachers, blatant Lawbreakers and the like, a form of righteous indignation is prudent in some cases.

Matthew and I disagree on a subject, passionately. But I believe we have both stated that the goal of that debate is to determine which of us, if either, is correct. I also believe that at the end of that discussion, if either of us are found to be wrong, then that one will repent.

I believe these things because Matthew and I hold the TRUTH above our personal feelings, beliefs or agenda's. There are some who do just the opposite. The truth is not their goal, but they strive to spread new and false doctrine to the body of Messiah. Such was the case in Titus:

1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;



This forum is called "YAHUAH Reigns". If the purpose here is to provide a forum where YHWH's truth can be discovered, learned, discussed, and even debated with the goal of bringing people to it, then count me in! I love it.

But if the purpose is to be a place where everything is right, nobody's wrong, ALL opinions and beliefs are valid, we-are-the-world-hugs-kisses-and-high-fives-mutual admiration society, then count me out. There are people being deceived and souls are at stake. I will stand for those people. It is those people I want to help.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 07 Mar 2008, 04:40

Here's a principle i think we all need to accept and adhere to, and by "we", i mean every single one of us without exception.

YHWH REIGNS. Therefore...

Whatever YHWH thinks or says is TRUTH.

Whatever WE think or say is OPINION.
Whatever WE think or say that YHWH says is OPINION.

Therefore, when we want to say "YOU ARE WRONG", we should say...
"I believe you are wrong" or
"I think you are wrong" or
"You are wrong, IMO", or simply,
"I disagree".
To just say "YOU ARE WRONG" usurps YHWH's prerogative.

Any time one person's belief is challenged and/or debated against another person's belief, BOTH beliefs are OPINION. Granted, 1 of them might be truth, from YHWH's perspective; but the debaters aren't YHWH, so from THEIR perspective, they are debating OPINIONS.
Eriq wrote:Matthew and I hold the TRUTH above our personal feelings, beliefs or agenda's. There are some who do just the opposite. The truth is not their goal, but they strive to spread new and false doctrine to the body of Messiah.
I disagree with the above accusation. I honestly don't believe anyone on this forum is "striving to spread ... false doctrine". The same thought crossed my mind when i first heard of the Lunar Sabbath, but i eventually realized it was wrong. If someone is believed to be doing this, then they need to be...
1. privately admonished; and if that fails...
2. admonished before 2 or 3 witnesses; and if that fails...
3. brought before and judged by the whole forum, similar to Jay & Johnathan.

I strongly suspect that any accuser would be very reluctant to go to step 3, because in this case it involves judging the person's intent & heart, rather than how plausible their doctrine seems to be.

Just some thoughts to ponder.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 07 Mar 2008, 16:10

To all who may read this:


Chuck is WRONG. Any who would espouse what Chuck has written may not be in the Messiah and could put their eternal salvation in danger.

However, rather than expounding on the dangers of fair speeches and false wisdom, I would just like the Scriptures to address Chuck's post. That I may not appear to be "disrespectful".

If you are in Messiah, you CAN and WILL know the truth. If you don't know or receive the truth, maybe you are not one of His and cannot be saved!

Yaacov
1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.





Yoch
18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice


2 Cor
4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of YHWH deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of Elohim.
4:3 But if our evangel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:



I Thes
2:13 For this cause also thank we without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of YHWH which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of YHWH , which effectually worketh also in you that believe
.


2 Thes
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom YHWH shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.



I Tim
2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of YHWH our Savior;
2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.



I Tim
3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of YHWH , which is the assembly of the living Elohim, the pillar and ground of the truth
.



The truth is what separates us who are in Messiah from the rest of the world. Let NO ONE deceive you to think otherwise:

1 Timothy
6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Master, the Messiah, and to the doctrine which is according to reverence;
6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds,
and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is righteousness: from such withdraw thyself
.


2 Tim
2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto YHWH , a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more wickedness.
2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker
:


3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth
.



2 Kepha 2
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Master that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.




Those who deny the truth can be known are none of His...

I Yoch
1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.


3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
3:19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.


4:6 We are of YHWH . He who knows YHWH hears us; he who is not of YHWH does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.




YHWH is looking for those who worship in truth:

Yoch
4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
4:24 Elohim is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Yoch
8:31 Then said Messiah to those Yahudim which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


Yoch
14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Yoch
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Yoch
17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.



I will end this post, echoing the words of Yochanon:

2:21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

2 Yoch
1:2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

LittleKangaDrinkingWine
Posts: 31
Joined: 01 Feb 2008, 03:02
Location: Flintstone GA, Israel

Postby LittleKangaDrinkingWine » 07 Mar 2008, 17:32

Eric,

Are you saying that you have all the truth and that everything you teach is correct? Because that is what is written in between the lines you write here.

LKDW

kathybyers2000
Posts: 103
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 13:32
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Givin' it back to YHWH!!!

Postby kathybyers2000 » 07 Mar 2008, 18:07

3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
3:19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.

Selah

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 08 Mar 2008, 02:03

LittleKangaDrinkingWine wrote:Eric,

Are you saying that you have all the truth and that everything you teach is correct? Because that is what is written in between the lines you write here.

LKDW


I didn't say anything. I purposely let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

That is NOT what is written between the lines at all Joey. You would understand what I wrote and the words of Scripture better if you would quit thinking you can read "bewteen the lines" all the time. You are not clairvoyant, psychic or a prophet. Just go with what is written.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 08 Mar 2008, 03:13

Oh dear, here we go again.
somebody put a 100 word limit on eriqbenel
because if a point can't be made in 100 words, it's too complex for text and needs to be face to face.

word count. 39

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 13:44
Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 08 Mar 2008, 03:30

eriqbenel wrote:To all who may read this:
Chuck is WRONG. Any who would espouse what Chuck has written may not be in the Messiah and could put their eternal salvation in danger.
This is exactly the kind of attitude i was referring to. How can a person try to conduct a "reasoning together" session when the other person constantly condemns, insults, and judges their salvation?
However, rather than expounding on the dangers of fair speeches and false wisdom, I would just like the Scriptures to address Chuck's post. That I may not appear to be "disrespectful".
It's too late for that, if you look at the 1st paragraph.

I agree with all the Scriptures that were listed, but they are written from YHWH's perspective.
The problem with Eriq listing them, is that from Eriq's perspective, wherever it says "YHWH" he mentally replaces it with "Eriq", and wherever it says "truth" he mentally replaces it with "Eriq's OPINION". And it just won't work with that substitution.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 08 Mar 2008, 13:21

kickme wrote:Oh dear, here we go again.
somebody put a 100 word limit on eriqbenel
because if a point can't be made in 100 words, it's too complex for text and needs to be face to face.

word count. 39



I'm not the only one who puts more than 100 words in a post. I can help it if you have a short attention span. Nobody forces you to read any post you don't want to. If the words are too many for you, sir, skip over and go to a smaller post.

By the way, I don't remember when you got elected "forum sherriff", where you get to decide how many words are too many and who gets a limit and who doesn't. Maybe you would have more to say if you weren't spending so much time counting words!


word count. 100
Last edited by eriqbenel on 08 Mar 2008, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 08 Mar 2008, 13:34

This is exactly the kind of attitude i was referring to. How can a person try to conduct a "reasoning together" session when the other person constantly condemns, insults, and judges their salvation?


Read the Scriptures dude. You condemn, insult and judge your own salvation. Your problem is with the Scripture

I agree with all the Scriptures that were listed, but they are written from YHWH's perspective.
The problem with Eriq listing them, is that from Eriq's perspective, wherever it says "YHWH" he mentally replaces it with "Eriq", and wherever it says "truth" he mentally replaces it with "Eriq's OPINION". And it just won't work with that substitution.



How do know what I "mentally" do?

Chuck and Joey want to turn this forum into the "psychic network"!

See Matthew? This is when it gets hard to not to tell a person something nice....

Chuck and Joey cannot argue with the Scripture that condemns their position, so they attack me.

The Scriptures weren't written for "YHWH's perspective", Einstein! He doesn't need to know the Scripture. They were written for US, at least for those of us who will receive and rightly divide them.

Since you can't possibly know what I "mentally" do? And since you can't possibly defend your position against the Scripture or against YHWH, I am your target.

It is easier to attack "my opinion" than it is to attack the Scripture. For that reason, it is YOU who is turning the Scripture into "Eriq's opinion", not me.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 08 Mar 2008, 20:31

eriqbenel wrote:
kickme wrote:Oh dear, here we go again.
somebody put a 100 word limit on eriqbenel
because if a point can't be made in 100 words, it's too complex for text and needs to be face to face.

word count. 39



I'm not the only one who puts more than 100 words in a post. I can help it if you have a short attention span. Nobody forces you to read any post you don't want to. If the words are too many for you, sir, skip over and go to a smaller post.

By the way, I don't remember when you got elected "forum sherriff", where you get to decide how many words are too many and who gets a limit and who doesn't. Maybe you would have more to say if you weren't spending so much time counting words!


word count. 100
good job, you actually got you point accross in that many words
congratulations!!!! ATTA BOY!!!!

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 08 Mar 2008, 21:33

kickme wrote:
eriqbenel wrote:
kickme wrote:Oh dear, here we go again.
somebody put a 100 word limit on eriqbenel
because if a point can't be made in 100 words, it's too complex for text and needs to be face to face.

word count. 39



I'm not the only one who puts more than 100 words in a post. I can't help it if you have a short attention span. Nobody forces you to read any post you don't want to. If the words are too many for you, sir, skip over and go to a smaller post.

By the way, I don't remember when you got elected "forum sherriff", where you get to decide how many words are too many and who gets a limit and who doesn't. Maybe you would have more to say if you weren't spending so much time counting words!


word count. 100
good job, you actually got you point accross in that many words
congratulations!!!! ATTA BOY!!!!



If you'd like me to scold you in less words than that. I'd be happy to oblige. :D
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq


Return to “Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron