"The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding"

WHEN DOES A SCRIPTURAL NEW MOON BEGIN?

For the open discussion of all calendar related issues.

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BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 21 Feb 2008, 14:25

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JMSchattke wrote:Well, now, Arnold says "conjunction"; he denies Enoch has any bearing, because that says "when light first enters". The Jews say sightable sliver, yet a third choice.

So, yeah, I'm at a loss. I honestly do not know for certain that I'm not a day late - or maybe a day early. I know for a fact that going and adding "postponements" is unscriptural, though. So I don't delay a month's start because it might be inconvenient.

At this point, the ONLY place in any sort of writing is Enoch, so I'm going by that. But if that means I would not fellowship with other believers, I ALSO will celebrate on whatever day they use, because that way I can encourage and discuss with them.




RESPONSE; I am not denying Enoch has any bearing, if he says "when light first enters" because that is what I believe the Scripture teaches but I don't believe the Scripture teaches you have to see when the light first enters. It is more important to know when the light will first enter and the only way to do this is know when the old light goes away, at conjunction, and the new light enters at that same moment that the moon starts to rebuild. I believe this is why they taught in the schools, how to know how to determine the conjunction, according to Philo. So I am not at odds with Enoch.

Enoch is NOT At this point, the ONLY place in any sort of writing. Philo teaches the new moon begins at conjunction and he lived at the time of our Saviour and the other Jews/apostles. According to Philo when the new moon goes away another one begins and he said the same is true with the day.

Philo of Alexandria [tr. by F H Colson (Harvard University Press, Loeb Classical Library, Cambridge, MA, 1937); The Special Laws, II, XI,41] writes: "The third [feast] is the new moon which follows the conjunction of the moon with the sun". And in II, XXVI,140: "This is the New Moon, or beginning of the lunar month, namely the period between one conjunction and the next, the length of which has been accurately calculated in the astronomical schools". It should be noted that the popular Hendrickson Publishers edition (1993) of C D Yonge’s 1854 translation does not have the same information that the Colson translation gives. The indications are that the conjunctions were the determining factors in deciding the first day of the month.
When I get time I will give you some more quotes from Philo.

Brother Arnold[color=black]
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Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

TrueGirlPower
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Postby TrueGirlPower » 24 Feb 2008, 05:04

Y'all, I am SO confused!

Honestly, when do we keep the DAY OF the new moon? Is it the day of conjunction, the next day where there's at least 1 to 2% light, or do we go and observe the sliver???

I have been praying for a deferent answer for a while now.

Truthfully, all three ways cannot be right. We HAVE to know when to start the months. If we are not keeping the right Rosh Chodesh, we are missing our appointment with Yah; hence we are off of His appointed times (Sabbaths and or any Feast days in the month), and we could be off the other months of the year as well.

I don’t care if the way I am keeping Rosh Chodesh is wrong or not, I just want to know the RIGHT way to do it. That way I and all of us LS keepers everywhere will be holding the right appointment times.

My dad and I have been reading this article from Qadesh la Yahweh Press, it makes since, BUT, is this the right way to do it? idk...
http://www.yahweh.org/publications/articles/rules/rules_new_moon.pdf

So y'all, what do we do?
On the 27th of this pagan month, my dad, five other LS believers and myself are going to fast and pray for a definitive answer.
If any one wants to join the fast, the more the better.
Playfully the lot of us will get an answer from Yah.

Hugs and blessings.
Adrianne ~

JMSchattke
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Postby JMSchattke » 24 Feb 2008, 05:37

Heh, that booklet uses a quote out of context from ISA 28 (not ISA 29, as they mistakenly attribute). It is actually one of my favorite verses about how if your explanation gets too complex, it's likely wrong:

Isa 28:9 Whom would He teach knowledge? And whom would He make to understand the message? Those weaned from milk, those taken from the breasts!
Isa 28:10 For it is: command upon command, command upon command, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.
Isa 28:11 For with a jabbering lip and a foreign tongue He speaks to this people,
Isa 28:12 to whom He said, "This is the rest, give rest to the weary," and, "This is the refreshing." But they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the Word of יהוה was to them, "Command upon command, command upon command, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little," so that they go and shall stumble backward, and be broken and snared and taken captive.

Enoch's rule is "when light first enters the moon" - that is, the time after the conjunction must take place during that night. Then the next DAY, is the first day. You don't have to have the night have none of the "old moon" - because nights aren't days. This (simple) explanation would have most months reckoned a day before the Jews, or anyone looking for the evening initial crescent.
Wandering Kernel of Happiness

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 24 Feb 2008, 13:26

Shalom Dear Sister True Girl Power,

I was also confused when I first started studying the calendar, so I know the feeling. I would read one man's article and say to myself that sounds right but when I read another man's article I said no this sounds right, and I was so confused until one day and it was revealed to me that I could determine the calendar for myself by simply following Scripture and I learned that it was not that hard. The truth was hid in simplicity, but when we understand that conjunction is a key and that if we do not add two or take away from the instructions, we are on the road to truth.

The web site you mention was good and I agree with most of it concerning conjunction. I think he made is a little harder than it is and there's no Scripture that teaches we are to count from Jerusalem time just because the Law will go forth out of Zion. That that goes forth out of Zion, teaches us have to count, and it does not teach us to count from Jerusalem time. I believe the following web site makes it simpler to understand.
http://ministersnewcovenant.org/New%20M ... ations.htm

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 24 Feb 2008, 15:31

BrotherArnold wrote:Shalom Dear Sister True Girl Power,

I was also confused when I first started studying the calendar, so I know the feeling. I would read one man's article and say to myself that sounds right but when I read another man's article I said no this sounds right, and I was so confused until one day and it was revealed to me that I could determine the calendar for myself by simply following Scripture and I learned that it was not that hard. The truth was hid in simplicity, but when we understand that conjunction is a key and that if we do not add two or take away from the instructions, we are on the road to truth.

The web site you mention was good and I agree with most of it concerning conjunction. I think he made is a little harder than it is and there's no Scripture that teaches we are to count from Jerusalem time just because the Law will go forth out of Zion. That that goes forth out of Zion, teaches us have to count, and it does not teach us to count from Jerusalem time. I believe the following web site makes it simpler to understand.
http://ministersnewcovenant.org/New%20M ... ations.htm

Brother Arnold



True Girl Power,

Arnold is right.

YHWH has set the luminaries in the sky to keep time, all we have to do is watch and learn their patterns. Fortunately, we don'thave to spend generations and generations learning to read the patterns and signs of astronomy. Our forefathers have already learned to do this and passed the information down. All we have to do is learn from them.

To learn from them, we read the pages of Scripture, science and history (not commentary). These things tell us that, as Arnold stated, "conjunction is the key". When we learn the conjunctions, we can pinpoint any time, day, month, year, sign or appointment.

Besides Scriptures, science is the strongest clue to truth. Any intelligent science puts the New Moon at conjunction (dark moon). It is n't very hard to confirm this. You can probably Google NASA, US Naval Observatory, or Farmers Almanac to confirm this. Check the encyclopedia or the dictionary. Or maybe go pick up a calendar in any store that includes the moon phases.

Don't be confused, sister. It is bad theology, lack of scientific knowledge and ignorance of historical fact that has caused all of this confusion among us. Things are easier to see when we limit our exposure to these things.

If I can help you in any way or if you would like to have any questions answered without the distraction of debate and confusion on this forum, please email me at eriqbenel@yahoo.com
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

yhuhsmessenger
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Re: WHEN DOES A SCRIPTURAL NEW MOON BEGIN?

Postby yhuhsmessenger » 14 Nov 2014, 21:12

The heavens declare the glory of aluhym, the skies show the works of His hands. DAY by DAY they utter SPEECH, NIGHT by NIGHT they DISPLAY KNOWLEDGE, their RULE goes out over the land. Psalm 19:1-4

Scripture tells us that the heavens will teach us His ways. Scripture also teaches us His ways. Put the two together as scripture declares that EVERY matter (even the new moon) must be established by at least 2 or 3 witnesses. The sun is one witness, the moon another, and if they all speak the same language and testimony, which they do, they should all line up in agreement with the same testimony. The word is another witness. Study to show thyself approved, and look up and observe the heavens. Listen to what YHUH is telling us and stop the chatter.

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105

For us lunar sabbath keepers, our path is the 6 days we work and our sabbath, repeated four times, for 28 days. Those days should have light, so we can see where we are walking and do not stumble, according to scripture, we do not walk in darkness if we are following Messiah, we walk in the light, we are children of the light. It is no coincidence that the light is on the moon approx 28 days, when we walk out our "weeks" or "sevens". The month begins as light is increasing, whether we can see the light or not, as we walk by faith and not by sight. The same with the year, the year begins when the light is increasing, after winter, after darkness, however there is still some darkness, it is still a bit cold. Remember when Yahusha was arrested in the first month, Peter was warming himself by the fire, as it was still cold. Yahusha also said that we know summer is NEAR when we start to see the branches of the trees getting tender and starting to leaf, etc, which is the effect the increasing light and warmth of the sun.

The same with the day. YHUH works in patterns. The month begins after conjunction as light increases on the moon. The year begins after darkness (winter/cold), as the sun's light and warmth begins to increase. So, also, the day begins after darkness/night/cold, as the sun's light and warmth begins to increase. Remember, when Mary approached the tomb, it states that it was early in the MORNING on the first day of the week, and it was still DARK. Darkness is still overpowering the light at this point, but you can still see light on the horizon, eventhough you can't actually SEE the sun, as it hasn't risen yet. Same with the month, just because you can't SEE the moon yet, that doesn't mean we don't know it's there. Those who have been observing the phases for a while begin to gain understanding and know how YHUH's timing works.

If you still don't believe the day begins in the morning, see Leviticus 7:15:
And the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings for thanksgiving shall be eaten the same day that it is offered; he shall not leave any of it until the morning.

If the peace offerings for thanksgiving have to eaten the same day, why can't it be left over 'til the morning? Because morning is the next day.

Many say the day begins in the evening because Genesis 1 words the verses with evening first, then morning. That's their main reason for beginning the day in the evening. However, they don't do the research to see there are MANY instances in scripture where morning is listed before evening, for example, with the daily sacrifices, they offered them in the morning, then again in the evening. ANother reason some give for beginning the day at night, is that YHUH said that when we become clean, we can wash ourselves and become clean at evening. Yes, a DAY, as in daylight when we do all our work ends in the evening, because obviously, that's when night begins, not the next day. SO, naturally, we would become clean at the end of the daylight period in which we became defiled. Then we go to sleep clean, because night is when no man can work according to scripture, and then we wake up the next day in the morning still clean and ready to offer the next day's morning sacrifice.

"We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work." John 9:4

Yahusha answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world’s light. It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.” John 11:9-10

"Arise, shine; for your light has come, And the glory of YHUH has risen upon you." Isaiah 60:1

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." Isaiah 5:20

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yahuahreigns
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Re: WHEN DOES A SCRIPTURAL NEW MOON BEGIN?

Postby yahuahreigns » 24 Nov 2014, 01:26

Good comment, yhuhsmessenger. Thank you I agree..

http://www.yahuahreigns.com/Genesis%201 ... ealed.html


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