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Historical Quotes in Support of . . .

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Historical Quotes in Support of . . .

Postby Watchman555 » 08 Nov 2007, 15:27

HEBREW OBSERVATION OF LUNAR PHASES


Probable Lunar Origin.

--Critical View

The origin of the Sabbath, as well as the true meaning of the name, is uncertain. The earliest Biblical passages which mention it (Ex. xx. 10, xxxiv. 21; Deut. v. 14; Amos viii. 5) presuppose its previous existence, and analysis of all the references to it in the canon makes it plain that its observance was neither general nor altogether spontaneous in either pre-exilic or post-exilic Israel. It was probably originally connected in some manner with the cult of the moon, as indeed is suggested by the frequent mention of Sabbath and New-Moon festivals in the same sentence (Isa. i. 13; Amos viii. 5; H Kings iv. 23). The old Semites worshiped the moon and the stars (Hommel, "Der Gestirndienst der Alten Araber"). Nomads and shepherds, they regarded the night as benevolent, the day with its withering heat as malevolent. In this way the moon ("Sinai" = "moon ["sin"] mountain") became central in their pantheon. The moon, however, has four phases in approximately 28 days, and it seemingly comes to a standstill every seven days. Days on which the deity rested were considered taboo, or ill-omened. New work could not be begun, nor unfinished work continued, on such days. The original meaning of "Shabbat" conveys this idea (the derivation from "sheba'" is entirely untenable) . If, as was done by Prof. Sayce (in his Hibbert Lectures) and by Jastrow (in "American Journal of Theology," April, 1898), it can be identified in the form "shabbaton" with the "Shabattum" of the Assyrian list of foreign words, which is defined as "um nuḥ libbi" = "day of propitiation" (Jensen, in "Sabbath-School Times," 1892), it is a synonym for "'Aẓeret" and means a day on which one's actions are restricted, because the deity has to be propitiated. If, with Toy (in "Jour. Bib. Lit." xviii. 194), it is assumed that the signification is "rest," or "season of rest" (from the verb "to rest," "to cease [from labor]"; though "divider" and "division of time" are likewise said to have been the original significations; comp. also Barth, "Nominalbildungen," and Lagarde, "Nominalbildung"), the day is so designated because, being taboo, it demands abstinence from work and other occupations. The Sabbath depending, in Israel's nomadic period, upon the observation of the phases of the moon, it could not, according to this view, be a fixed day. When the Israelites settled in the land and became farmers, their new life would have made it desirable that the Sabbath should come at regular intervals, and the desired change would have been made all the more easily as they had abandoned the lunar religion.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... letter=S#3 Per the Jewish Encyclopedia

Pastoral Feasts.
The moon was the beneficent deity of the shepherds in the region and climate where ancient Israel had its ancestral home. Hence the many traces of lunar institutions in even the latest Israelitish cult and its phraseology; e.g., the "horn" (crescent), the "face" (of Yhwh) in the benedictions, etc. The Sabbath, as marking the end of the week, reveals its lunar origin; the phases of the moon having taught the shepherds, whose weal or wo depended so largely upon the benevolence or malevolence of the night season, to divide the period elapsing between two new moons into four equal groups (weeks), the last day of each—in imitation of the moon's coming to rest, as it were—becoming the day of rest. Indications are not wanting that at first the New Moon festival was not counted among the seven days of the week (see Week); but after 7✗4 (=28 ) days had elapsed, one or two days were intercalated as New Moon days, whereupon a new cycle of four weeks began, so that the Sabbath was a movable festival. Later the week and the Sabbath became fixed; and this gradually resulted in taking away from the New Moon festival its popular importance.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 5&letter=F Jewish Encyclopedia

For it is said in the Scripture: "On the tenth day of this month let each of them take a sheep according to his house; in order that from the tenth, there may be consecrated to the tenth, that is to God, the sacrifices which have been preserved in the soul, which is illuminated in two portions out of the three, until it is entirely changed in every part, and becomes a heavenly brilliancy like a full moon, at the height of its increase at the end of the second week , and so is able not only to guard, but even to sacrifice uninjured and faultless improvements, that is to say, propitiations.

http://www.yahuahreigns.com/library.html Philo; Vol 2. pages 178-179

XX. The fourth commandment has reference to the sacred seventh day that it may be passed in a sacred and holy manner. Now some states keep the holy festival only once in the month, counting from the new moon, as a day sacred to God; but the nation of the Jews keep every seventh day regularly, after each interval of six days; and there is an account of events recorded in the history of the creation of the world, comprising a sufficient relation of the cause of this ordinance ; for the sacred historian says, that the world was created in six days, and that on the seventh day God desisted from his works, and began to contemplate what he had so beautifully created; therefore, he commanded the beings also who were destined to live in this state, to imitate God in this particular also, as well as in all others, applying themselves to their works for six days, but desisting from them and philosophizing on the seventh day, and devoting their leisure to the contemplation of the things of nature, and considering whether in the preceding six days they have done anything which has not been holy, bringing their conduct before the judgment-seat of the soul, and subjecting it to a scrutiny, and making themselves give an account of all the things which they have said or done ; the laws sitting by as assessors and joint inquirers, in order to the correcting of such errors as have been committed through carelessness, and to the guarding against any similar offences being hereafter repeated. But God, on one occasion, employed the six days for the completion of the world, though he had no need of any length of time for such a purpose; but each man, as partaking of a mortal nature, and as being in need of ten thousand things for the unavoidable necessities of life, ought not to hesitate, even to the end of his life, to provide himself with all requisites, always allowing himself an interval of rest on the sacred seventh day. Is it not a most beautiful recommendation, and one most admirably adapted to the perfecting of, and leading man to, every virtue, and above all to piety ? The commandment, in effect says: Always imitate God; let that one period of seven days in which God created the world, be to you a complete example of the way in which you are to obey the law, and an all-sufficient model for your actions. Moreover, the seventh day is also an example from which you may learn the propriety of studying philosophy; as on that day, it is said, God beheld the works which he had made; so that you also may yourself contemplate the works of nature, and all the separate circumstances which contribute towards happiness. Let us not pass by such a model of the most excellent ways of life, the practical and the contemplative; but let us always keep our eyes fixed upon it, and stamp a visible image and representation of it on our own minds, making our mortal nature resemble, as far as possible, his immortal one, in respect of saying and doing what is proper. And in what sense it is said that the world was made by God in six days, who never wants time at all to make anything, has been already explained in other passages where we have treated of allegories.

XXI. Now, those who have applied themselves to mathematical studies, fully explain the precedence and pre-eminence to which the number seven is entitled among all existing things, tracing it out with great care and exceeding minuteness and accuracy; for among numbers seven is the virgin number, the nature which has no mother, that which is most nearly related to the unit, the foundation of all numbers; the idea of the planets, just as the unit is of the immovable sphere; for of the unit and the number seven consists the incorporeal heaven, the model of the visible heaven, and the heaven is made up of indivisible and divisible nature. Now, indivisible nature has assigned to it the first, and highest, and immovable circumference, which the unit inspects and overlooks; but the divisible nature has received that circumference which is inferior both in power and in arrangement, which the number seven inspects, which, being divided into six parts, has produced what are called the "Seven, planets ; not indeed that any of the heavenly bodies do really wander, inasmuch as they all enjoy a divine, and happy, and blessed nature, to all of which characteristics a freedom from wandering is most closely akin : at all events, they always preserve a kind of identity in a constantly similar motion, and pass a long eternity without ever admitting any change or variation whatever. But because they revolve in a manner contrary to the indivisible and outermost sphere, they have been named planets, though without any strict propriety, by men speaking at random, who have by such language attributed their own propensity to wander to the heavenly bodies, which, in fact, never quit that position in the divine lamp in which they have been originally placed. For all these reasons, and more besides, the number seven is honored. But there is no one cause on account of which it has received its precedence so completely, as because it is by its means that the Creator and Father of the universe is most especially made manifest; for the in this as in a mirror, acting, and creating the world, and managing the-whole universe.

Pages 158-160 http://www.yahuahreigns.com/library.html Philo; Vol 3.

XXXIV. Among the things then which are perceptible only by intellect, the number seven is proved to be the only thing free from motion and accident; but among things perceptible by the external senses, it displays a great and comprehensive power, contributing to the improvement of all terrestrial things, and affecting even the periodical changes of the moon, in what manner it does this, we must consider. The number seven when compounded of numbers beginning with the unit makes eight-and-twenty, a perfect number, and one equalized in its parts. And the number so produced, is calculated to reproduce the revolutions of the moon, bringing her back to the point from which she first began to increase in a manner perceptible by the external senses, and to which she returns by waning. For she increases from her first crescent-shaped figure, to that of a half circle in seven days; and in seven more, she becomes a full orb; and then again she turns back, retracing the same path, like a runner of the diaulos,* receding from an orb full of light, to a half circle again in seven days, and lastly, in an equal number she diminishes from a half circle to the form of a crescent; and thus the number before mentioned is completed. And the number seven by those persons who are in the habit of employing names with strict propriety is called the perfecting number; because by it, every thing is perfected. And any one may receive a confirmation of this from the fact, that every organic body has three dimensions, length, depth, and breadth; and four boundaries, the point, the line, the superficies, and the solid; and by these, when combined, the number seven is made up. But it would be impossible for bodies to be measured by the number seven, according to the combination of the three dimensions, and the four boundaries, if it did not happen that the ideas of the first numbers, one, two, three and four, in which the number ten is founded, comprised the nature of the number seven. For the aforesaid numbers have four boundaries, the first, the second, the third, the fourth, and three intervals. The first interval being that between one and two; the second, that between two and three; the third, that between three and four.

Pages 29-30


IV. But nature delights in the number seven. For there are seven planets, going in continual opposition to the daily course of the heaven which always proceeds in the same direction. And likewise the constellation of the Bear is made up of seven stars, which constellation is the cause of communication and unity among men, and not merely of traffic. Again, the periodical changes of the moon, take place according to the number seven, that star having the greatest sympathy with the things on earth. And the changes which the moon works in the air, it perfects chiefly in accordance with its own configurations on each seventh day.

Page 54 http://www.yahuahreigns.com/library.html Philo; Vol 1

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Postby BrotherArnold » 10 Nov 2007, 18:10

'First of all, I don't believe that Historical evidence trumps Scripture but the doctrines that I believe the Scripture teaches are supported by Historical evidence, which includes the Sacred Name, Lunar Sabbaths, and when a day begins etc. this lets us know that we are not observing some new wind of doctrine, like the traditional weekly Sabbath that cannot be traced back to the time of the Temple.

We can CONCLUSIVELY prove from many Scriptures that our Savior and His Apostles observed the SAME weekly Sabbath as did the Jews of his day and we can CONCLUSIVELY prove from the HISTRICAL evidence that the Jews of His day kept "LUNAr" Sabbaths.
This Historical evidence is recorded in the book of Philo the Jew who lived at the same time our Saviour did. See http://lunarsabbath.info/_wsn/page3.html

One of the major objections to Lunar Sabbaths is that people believe that the Jews have always kept up with the weekly Sabbath from creation to now, but is this true?

No! this statement is not true according to scripture and even the Jews themselves. The Scripture clearly teaches in Laminations 2:6 that YHWH Himself caused the Sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion and even Daniels prophesy teaches us they would think change times and laws and the Sabbath they are keeping today is what It was changed to and therefore cannot be the correct Sabbath.

The Jews themselves claim that the weekly Sabbath is OBSCURE and they do not know where it originated but some say that it was by the phases of the moon and others by the seven planets. Can you are imagine the Jews admitting this?

This admission is found in the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia under the article Sabbath and was written by a well-respected Rabbi by the name of Max Joseph. Most Jews do not have this knowledge and simply follow tradition, same as most Christians, they do not study the Scripture for themselves and they follow the traditions of men and make the Commandments of none effect.

They do claim that the blessings which the world possesses in its weekly day of rest and observance is owed exclusively to Israel even though they do not know where it came from. The same author in another article under HOLIEDAYS acknowledges that the Sabbaths were ORIGINALLY by the phases of the moon and therefore it is obvious that he was not one of those who believed it was by the seven planets.

Someone might ask, why would a Hebrew scholar like Max Joseph who knew and publicly acknowledge that the Sabbaths were originally by the phases of the moon and then continue keeping the traditional Saturday Sabbath, not knowing where it originated?

I have asked myself this same question Concerning the True Name of the Creator. Most scholars agree that it was originally YHWH but they continue using the traditional name J-sus not realizing the Importance of using the Name that He gave to Himself, this also amazes me but it is true. It goes back to vain warship, not doing what the Commandments says. He teaches us that the Scribes and Pharisees were sitting in Moses seat and whatever they say is right but they would not do it. The Jews admit that the Sabbaths were originally by the phases of the Moon but will not keep them that way.

These articles are found in the 1943 Universal Jewish Encyclopedias called the war encyclopedias and every one knows that when there is a major crisis and people think that the world is coming to an end etc, they repent of their sins and tend to be as honest as possible, which could have been the case here with Max Joseph. At any rate when people use the argument that the Jews kept with it, we see that the Jews admit that they do not know where the weekly Sabbath that they are keeping originated and at the same time admit that it was originally by the phases of the moon.

These two articles can be verified in the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, volume five, edited by Isaac Landman, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia Inc., New York, 1941, article "Holydays, page 410. And the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, volume nine, edited by Isaac Landman, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, Inc., New York, 1943, Oracle "Sabbath, page 295.

Here's one more, In the 1943 Universal Jewish Encyclopedia volume 10 page 482 edited by Isaac Landman under the article "Week", written by Simon Cohen, Director of Research, it says,

"WEEK (in Hebrew shabua). The idea of the week, as a subdivision of the month, seems to have arisen in Babylonia, where each lunar month was divided into four parts, corresponding to the four phases of the moon. The first week of each month began with the new moon, so that, as the lunar month was one or two days more than four periods of seven days, these additional days were not reckoned at all. Every seventh day (sabbatum) was regarded as an unlucky day. This method of reckoning time spread westward through Syria and Palestine, and was adopted by the Israelites, probably after they settled in Palestine. With the development of the importance of the Sabbath as a day of consecration and emphasis laid upon the significant number seven, the week became more and more divorced from its lunar connection, so that by the time of the second Temple it was merely a period of seven days and no longer depended on the new moon. From Judaism the week passed over to Christianity, and through the influence of the later was generally adopted throughout the Roman empire;

The above is in harmony with Rabbi Max Joseph's article under Calendar where he states that the Sabbath was originally by the phases of the moon. We see that the Rabbis and Director of Research, Jewish scholars, were aware that the weeks and the Sabbath they are now keeping were not the original, as far back as 1943.
If they can admit it then why can't we?

If the Jewish Director of Research, Simon Cohen researched the seven-day week all the way back to the Babylonians and acknowledges that the Israelites received it from them, the rest would be easy because where does he think the Babylonians received it from?
Last edited by BrotherArnold on 10 Feb 2008, 07:14, edited 2 times in total.
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

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Postby BrotherArnold » 15 Nov 2007, 14:52

CHECK THIS OUT.


LUNAR SABBATHS CONFIRMED BY JEWS


I realize that some people are not going to believe lunar Sabbaths, no matter what Historical evidence you give them or what scriptural proof you present, they are going to remain in a state of denial and reject the word of YHWH to the very end holding their traditions but here is more evidence from the Jewish people themselves, in addition to the evidence already given, that the Jewish people knew that the weekly seventh day that they are now keeping is not right and that the weeks and the seventh day of the weeks were originally by the phases of the moon.


In the 1943 Universal Jewish Encyclopedia volume 10 page 482 edited by Isaac Landman under the article "Week", written by Simon Cohen, Director of Research, it says,

"WEEK (in Hebrew shabua). The idea of the week, as a subdivision of the month, seems to have arisen in Babylonia, where each lunar month was divided into four parts, corresponding to the four phases of the moon. The first week of each month began with the new moon, so that, as the lunar month was one or two days more than four periods of seven days, these additional days were not reckoned at all. Every seventh day (sabbatum) was regarded as an unlucky day. This method of reckoning time spread westward through Syria and Palestine, and was adopted by the Israelites, probably after they settled in Palestine. With the development of the importance of the Sabbath as a day of consecration and emphasis laid upon the significant number seven, the week became more and more divorced from its lunar connection, so that by the time of the second Temple it was merely a period of seven days and no longer depended on the new moon. From Judaism the week passed over to Christianity, and through the influence of the later was generally adopted throughout the Roman empire; Islam also made use of the week for its Sabbath days.
Jews never had any special names for the days of the week, usually denoting them by ordinal numerals: first, second, third and so on.

Although the Historical research is undeniable and is in PERFET harmony with scripture and other Historians and Scholars who have discovered the same, I disagree with his statement that it was probably adopted by the Israelites, after they settled in Palestine. I believe the Babylonians receives it from their father Adam and it was handed down from there. The scripture also teaches Lunar Sabbaths but at least he recognizes they were keeping Lunar Weeks with a Lunar Sabbath at the end of each, (which began somewhere) up unto the second Temple, probably because of the writings of Philo, Clemet of Alexandra, etc. and who knows what all evidence and books that this Director of Research had at his disposal. At any rate his research is sound and it proves the Jews were at some point keeping Lunar weeks and went FROM the LUNAR week to the traditional week they observe today which is a 1-7 continuous cycle paying no attention to the moon.

This also supports Rabbi Max Joseph's article under Sabbath where he admits the Sabbath is obscure and they don't know exactly where it came in, of course he had also the knowledge that it was originally by the phases of the moon, same as this author. These other two articles by Max Josephs can be verified in the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, volume five, edited by Isaac Landman, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia Inc., New York, 1941, article "Holydays, page 410. And the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, volume nine, edited by Isaac Landman, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, Inc., New York, 1943, Oracle "Sabbath, page 295.


We see that the Rabbis and Director of Research, Jewish scholars, were aware that the weeks and the Sabbath they are now keeping were not the original, as far back as 1943, and I know of another 1905 Jewish Encyclopedia that acknowledges it which I will obtain later.
If they can admit it then why can't we?

If the Jewish Director of Research, Simon Cohen researched the seven-day week all the way back to the Babylonians and acknowledges that the Israelites received it from them, the rest would be easy because where does he think the Babylonians received it from? Where did the Babylonians get the concept of a week and the keeping of a seventh day of the week from in the first place? We know the Babylonians were direct descendents of Noah who was a direct descendent of Adam who was the created son of YHWH.

The Babylonians and Abraham who were taught by Noah and his son Shem who lived in and around the Metropolitan city Babylon. Abraham knew about the true calendar because they received it from Adam and his descendents who received it from YHWH.

If you study the above carefully you will see that the Jewish author of this article would have to believe the Hebrew children were actually Keeping Lunar Sabbaths every seventh day of the Lunar Week up until the second Temple where the Julius Caesar calendar that was introduced in 46 B.C. began to phase its way in . Of course this calendar was not readily accepted by the Jewish people and that is why you read in the Dead Sea Scrolls where they were showing where the Sabbaths and new moons would fall throughout the year on this new commercial calendar. Time and time again you see in the Dead Sea Scrolls where the scribe were saying things like the new moon is going to fall here and the Sabbath is going to fall here or a certain feast day here and that because the Sabbaths and new moons and feast days did not have a part of that Roman calendar and they were showing where they would fall throughout the year. Else they would not have to say that it falls here or there if it was already there.


Side Note! Remember these Scholars are Saturday Sabbath keepers and have no bones to pick, they are just stating facts. It does not matter to them how much Historical proof is presented or how many scriptures there are that conclusively prove that the early Israelites kept Lunar Sabbaths, they are NOT going to change, they are going to stay with the traditional Sabbath knowing that it does NOT square with scripture or History. How about YOU, will you also deny the Word of YHWH and follow these BLIND leaders, no matter what the evidence shows? The choice is YOURS.
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

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Postby Watchman555 » 14 Jan 2008, 23:11

What a place to find historical evidence of a lunar reckoning of a sabbath...

[align=center] Babylonian Story of Creation [/align]
Then came the ordering of the universe anew. Having made a covering for the heavens with half the body of the defeated Dragon of Chaos, Merodach set the Abyss, the abode of Nudimmud, in front, and made a corresponding edifice above--the heavens--where he founded stations for the gods Anu, Bel, and Ae. Stations for the great gods in the likeness of constellations, together with what is regarded as the Zodiac, were his next work. He then designated the year, setting three constellations for each month, and made a station for Nibiru-- Merodach's own star--as the overseer of all the lights in the firmament. He then caused the new moon, Nannaru, to shine, and made him the ruler of the night, indicating his phases, one of which was on the seventh day, and the other, a /Å¡abattu/, or day of rest, in the middle of the month. Directions with regard to the moon's movements seem to follow, but the record is mutilated, and their real nature consequently doubtful. With regard to other works which were performed we have no information, as a gap prevents their being ascertained. Something, however, seems to have been done with Merodach's net-- probably it was placed in the heavens as a constellation, as was his bow, to which several names were given. Later on, the winds were bound and assigned to their places, but the account of the arrangement of other things is mutilated and obscure, though it can be recognised that the details in this place were of considerable interest.
http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/RelBabAss/00000013.htm


I, myself, would not use this as absolute evidence; however, it is interesting to note that Nimrod founded Babylon, and Nimrod was the son of Kush, son of Ham, son of Noah. As a matter of fact, he might have even sat on great-grandpa's knee and heard the story of creation before he turned EEE-VIL. It also mentions the planet Nibiru, planet X ? a.k.a. planet Yahweh ? It seems the modern community has recently discovered this planet also.

It's really a shame that the rest of the tablet concerning the moon's movements was destroyed.

~Greg

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Postby Watchman555 » 09 Feb 2008, 15:35

Shalom All,

Here's is a link that chosen had posted on another forum. I find it very interesting to see all the different nations that refer to the Sabbath.


Babylonian
Euphrates & Tigris Valleys Mesopotamia
(Written lang. 3800 B.C.)

First ----- Second ------ Third ----- Fourth ----- Fifth ----- Sixth ----- Sa-ba-tu (Sabbath)

The table above includes some of the oldest languages known to man. One of these, the Babylonian language, was in use hundreds of years before the Hebrew race was founded by Abraham. That language designated the seventh day of the week as "sa-ba-tu," meaning rest day -- another indisputable proof that the Bible "Sabbath" was not, and is not, exclusively Jewish.

Very few realize that the word "Sabbath" and the concept of resting from work on the seventh day of the week (Saturday) is common to most of the ancient and modern languages of the world. This is evidence totally independent of the Scriptures that confirms the Biblical teaching that God's seventh day Sabbath predates Judaism. The concept of a Saturday holy day of rest was understood, accepted, and practiced by virtually every culture from Babylon through modern times.


http://www.sabbathtruth.com/documentation/languages.asp

Here is the actual translation from Tablet 5:

I. He.(i.e. Marduk) made the stations for the great gods
2. The stars, their images, as the stars of the Zodiac,' he fixed
3. He ordained the year and into sections he divided it ;
4. For the twelve months he fixed three stars.
5. After he had [ . . . ] the days of the year [ . . . ] images
6. He founded the station of Nibir to determine their bounds
7. That none might err or go astray,
8. He set the station of Bel and Ea along with him.
9. He opened great gates on both sides,
10. He made strong the bolt on the left and on the right.
11. In the midst thereof he fixed the zenith ;
12. The Moon-god he caused to shine forth, the night he entrusted to him
13. He appointed him, a being of the night, to determine the days; Interesting (gk)
14. Every month without ceasing with the crown he covered(?) him, saying) :
15. "At the beginning of the month, when thou shinest upon the land,
16. "Thou commandest the horns to determine six days,
17. "And on the seventh day to [divide] the crown.
18. "On the fourteenth day thou shalt stand opposite, the half [...].
19. "When the Sun-god on the foundation of heaven [...] thee,
20. "The [...] thou shalt cause to ..., and thou shalt make his [...].
21. "[...] ... unto the path of the Sun-god shalt thou cause to draw nigh,
22. "[And on the ... day] thou shalt stand opposite, and the Sun-god shall ... [...]
23. "[...] to traverse her way.
24. "[...] thou shalt cause to draw nigh, and thou shalt judge the right.
25. "[...] to destroy
26. "[...] me.
"To determine six days, agrees well with 1. I 3, where Marduk is described as appointing the Moon-god a-na ud-du-u u-me, (( to determine the days"?; moreover, the phrase is appropriately followed in 1. 17 by the statement of the Moon-god's duty on the seventh day.
One sign is wanting. Possibly read zttu. “Perhaps read arba”.



http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/stc/index.htm

I believe there is no doubt that the Babylonians used the moon, not only for months, but each moon phase determined a sabbath also. In which, it has been shown that they even used the word: sabatu; meaning rest.


Dani\'el 7:23-25:
23 "This is what he said, "the fourth beast is the fourth reign on earth, which is different from all other reigns, and it devours all the earth, tramples it down and crushes it. 24 "And the ten horns are ten sovereigns from this reign. They shall rise, and another shall rise after them, and it is different from the first ones, and it humbles three sovereigns, 25 and it speaks words against the Most High, and it wears out the set-apart ones of the Most High, and it intends to change appointed times and law , and they are given into its hand for a time and times and half a time.

It seems at the time of this prophecy that the changing of appointed times and law had not taken place yet - future event. It seems pretty evident if this Scripture is indeed speaking of the mo\'edim; which includes the Sabbath, that these were not changed as of yet, because history does indicate that these Babylonians were keeping a sabatu by the moon phases.


YeshaYahu 30:26:
And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that Yahuah binds up the breach (7667) of His people, and heals the wound of His blows.

The word breach here is an interesting word. It's different from the word breach which is used in YeshaYahu 58:12. Yet according to Blue Letter Bible they seem to be indicating that this word somehow is related to sheba - or seven.


YeshaYahu 58:12-14:
12 "And those from among you shall build the old waste places. You shall raise up the foundations of many generations. And you would be called the Repairer of the Breach (6556) , the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In.

Notice - a breach is going to be repaired. Through this repairing of the breach it is a restorer of streets to dwell in. I would suggest that the streets to dwell in is the way or a path to walk on. Because, streets are made to walk on. Notice how it goes right into not turning your foot from the Sabbath. In other words, it is pointing to a way to walk in with your feet.


13 "If you do turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My set-apart day, and shall call the Sabbath "A delight,' the set-apart day of Yahuah ‘esteemed,' and shall esteem it, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words, 14 then you shall delight yourself in Yahuah. And I shall cause you to ride on the heights of the earth, and feed you with the inheritance of Ya'aqob your father. For the mouth of Yahuah has spoken!

Waste places are caused by destruction, such as is indicated by the word breach; both used in YeshaYahu 30:26 and verse 12 above.


[code:1]
#7667 - sheber
1) breaking, fracture, crushing, breach, crash, ruin, shattering
a) breaking, fracture, shattering, crushing
b) crashing

#6556 - perets
1) breach, gap, bursting forth
a) bursting forth, outburst
b) breach
[/code:]

Psalm 95:10-11:
10 "For forty years I was grieved with that generation, And said, "they are a people who go astray in their hearts, And they do not know My ways.' 11 "As I swore in My wrath, “If they enter into My rest...'

Huh, The Lexicon says:


Psalm 95:11:
Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Hebrews 3:16-19:
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Was it not all who came out of Mitsrayim, led by Mosheh? 17 And with whom was He grieved forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief.


~Greg

Luneee
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Postby Luneee » 09 Feb 2008, 16:10

This link would show that a Jewish source admits that Sabbath was originally Lunar.

http://www.lunarsabbath.com/uje410.htm

Shalom,

Jay Vincent.

kickme
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Postby kickme » 09 Feb 2008, 16:28

You know, it often wonders me if the authors you refer to in support of the weekly lunar cycle were not in fact speaking of the feast months, those months in which specific days and weeks were determined by the moon. IE, passover, Feast of Tabernacles, etc.
I'm sure you'll post some long dissertation in reply to this, but I guess I'm just asking how you can be so sure this was a general application, and not a discussion specifically directed towards the months with the high sabbaths

eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 09 Feb 2008, 16:48

You know, it often wonders me if the authors you refer to in support of the weekly lunar cycle were not in fact speaking of the feast months, those months in which specific days and weeks were determined by the moon. IE, passover, Feast of Tabernacles, etc.
I'm sure you'll post some long dissertation in reply to this, but I guess I'm just asking how you can be so sure this was a general application, and not a discussion specifically directed towards the months with the high sabbaths



Did you even read the posts? The answer to that is in the posts. The authors are specifically talking about the "Seventh Day" Sabbath every time.

Not only that, they posted the links to the places that give the information. You might try and go the the sites and do some honest research instead of responding with blanket skepticism.

Do the homework, then you can discuss it from a position of integrity and knowledge rather than blind opposition.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

kickme
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Postby kickme » 09 Feb 2008, 19:52

wasn't opposition, it was a simple open ended question/probe
and as far as reading it all, don't forget in the multitude of words, there is error

eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 10 Feb 2008, 14:25

kickme wrote:wasn't opposition, it was a simple open ended question/probe
and as far as reading it all, don't forget in the multitude of words, there is error



What are you Solomon now??? Ben Franklin??? Confucius??? Is that a new proverb?

Who said there is error in the multitude of words?

We can't have an intelligent discussion if you don't do the discovery work with integrity and stop babbling your erroneous philosophies.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 10 Feb 2008, 14:48

oh, wait a second
so it's not OK for me to question your theories but it is OK for you to say my philosophies are in error?
Not quite sure how that works

BTW, no, I'm not Solomon but it came from Solomon
Pro 10:19 When words are many, Transgression is not absent, But he who restrains his lips is wise.
Ecc 5:3 For a dream comes through the greatness of the task, and a fool’s voice is known by his many words.
Ecc 5:7 For in much dreaming and many words there is futility. But fear Elohim.

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 10 Feb 2008, 15:30

Greetings Kickme,

I like that proverb and the verses that support it. I'll keep them in mind for future use. One of my "pet peeves" is lengty verbose "proofs" which, after you read them, you don't really know what the point was.

If a point that should be simple takes a mountain of rhetoric to explain, it sends up a "red flag", and automatically makes me suspicious.
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 11 Feb 2008, 15:59

chuckbaldwin wrote:Greetings Kickme,

I like that proverb and the verses that support it. I'll keep them in mind for future use. One of my "pet peeves" is lengty verbose "proofs" which, after you read them, you don't really know what the point was.

If a point that should be simple takes a mountain of rhetoric to explain, it sends up a "red flag", and automatically makes me suspicious.



RESPONSE; I agree with what is being said but has anyone ever wondered what the ancient thought was lengthy????

We know that the apostle Paul and many others seem to be long-winded, a man even fell asleep while Paul was preaching and it also seems they could carry a thought and hold a thought for a longtime, unlike today. We noticed this in the Scriptures from Paul's writings and also from People's writings like Philo, who lived at that time. Bottom-line is, who are we to say what is lengthy????

Just because someone says something in the few words does not make it true and with many words does not make it untrue. Acts 2:40 says that Peter used many words. Acts 15:32 says that Judus and Silas, being prophets, exhorted the brethern with MANY WORDS etc.

There is no contradiction here, but there is an understanding when it says a fool is known by multitude of words, this is not to be understood to be referring to the Master's words on the words of someone exhorting another. When you exhort with many words as did the apostles, this is not wrong, especially with the stiff neck and hard hearted people of today. (And I'm not speaking of only those that insist that Sunday as the seventh day in spite of all the evidence against it)

We started off by saying the Sabbath is a Moed and the moon is for moeds and because this contradicted man's tradition the many words flew.





Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

kickme
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Postby kickme » 11 Feb 2008, 21:30

BroArnold, please realise I'm not singling you out to pick on you or critisize you, that's not my intent at all. I fault and am quite critical of myself for what I post. I know that I'm in no way perfect, nor is my theology accurate. I have changed many beliefs in the last few years because error was pointed out either through scripture or by caring people showing me things I was blind to.
I do find some of the stuff you've posted quite interesting, yet some of it is so lengthly it really is hard for me to see what the point you were trying to convey was. Not just you, actually, but anyone who makes long complex points. Somehow I just don't see Scripture being so complex. I have read some articles on eliyah.com that leave me scratching my head as to how the author actually came to the conclusion they did using the portions they did to make the point they were trying to make. Sort of makes me suspect that they had a foregone conclusion, and went scratching for anything to support that conclusion.
Seems that's not the way it should be.

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 12 Feb 2008, 02:34

kickme wrote:BroArnold, please realise I'm not singling you out to pick on you or critisize you, that's not my intent at all. I fault and am quite critical of myself for what I post. I know that I'm in no way perfect, nor is my theology accurate. I have changed many beliefs in the last few years because error was pointed out either through scripture or by caring people showing me things I was blind to.
I do find some of the stuff you've posted quite interesting, yet some of it is so lengthly it really is hard for me to see what the point you were trying to convey was. Not just you, actually, but anyone who makes long complex points. Somehow I just don't see Scripture being so complex. I have read some articles on eliyah.com that leave me scratching my head as to how the author actually came to the conclusion they did using the portions they did to make the point they were trying to make. Sort of makes me suspect that they had a foregone conclusion, and went scratching for anything to support that conclusion.
Seems that's not the way it should be.


RESPONSE; I agree the shorter the better but some of us are like the apostle Paul, long-winded, but we really did make it short in the beginning. We wrote that the moon was for Moed's and that the weekly Sabbath is a Moed, and then the long speeches came in because it went against their tradition. Remember also that these posts are voluntary and you do not have to read or respond to them if they do not interest you.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info


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