LUNAR SABBATHS ARE PROPHETIC OF SEVENTH DAY SABBATHS

[chuckbaldwin]

Hello Kwolfe,

Thank you for the explanation. It was all pretty clear. By the "definition" used in the context of this forum, you would NOT be classified as a Lunar Sabbatarian, since they reckon the 8th, 15th, 22nd & 29th of EVERY month as weekly Sabbaths, and NOT the saturday Sabbath.

One question - What is the "lunar Sabbath" in the 2nd month?

Also, one thing i discovered over the past year - if you read the Hebrew text or other translations besides the KJV, Gen.1 shows the creation days starting & ending at DAWN vs Evening. This topic is discussed in another thread.

[kwolfe]

Chuck,

I think the Lunar Sabbatarians see something in the sequence of the "lunar Sabbaths", but they fail to understand the deep prophetic significance of these special days.

The "lunar Sabbaths" (more than one) in the 2nd month would be determined by the number of days in the first month, after the 29th day.
If the month had 30 days then the "lunar Sabbaths" in the 2nd month would fall on the 6th, the 13th, the 20th, and the 27th respectively. The number of days in the 1st month would depend entirely on the sighting of the new moon that begins the 2nd month. ( This sighting would definitely show that the 1st month had ended). This way there would only be 1 "lunar Sabbath" remaining for the 3rd month, and, again, the day this "lunar Sabbath" would fall on would depend on the sighting of the New Moon of the 3rd month. The 7 "lunar Sabbaths" after the Wave Sheaf offering are used to calculate the exact day of Pentecost.

Regarding the beginning and ending of the creation days--the Hebrew text actually has a different meaning to the word that we see translated as "DAWN". The meaning is more along the line of the beginning of the day rather than meaning the actual sunrise time, as we understand "DAWN" to mean today. Our traditional Hebrew interpretation is that the day (dawning of the day) begins with the dark portion and ends with the ending of the light portion, or the setting of the sun.

Shalom,
kwolfe@starband.net

[chuckbaldwin]

Hi Kwolfe,

I think i understand. The only reason you have "lunar Sabbaths" in the 2nd month (and not the 4th, 5th, etc) is because they are part of the 7 Sabbaths counting to Pentecost.

[kwolfe]

Hello Chuck,

Yes, the only reason that you have "lunar Sabbaths" in the 2nd and 3rd months is because they are part of the 7 "lunar Sabbaths counting to Pentecost. That's exactly right. Then you have no more "lunar Sabbaths" until the 1st day of the 7th month.

The proof for this understanding is because of Leviticus 23:15, 16, in which is mentioned the 50 days from the Wave Sheaf to Pentecost. The 50 day count would not harmonize with the beliefs of the Lunar Sabbatarians because in the 50 days, the 7-day sequence of the "lunar Sabbaths" is never disturbed or interrupted as they enter into the 2nd and 3rd months. This could not allow the "lunar Sabbaths" to fall on the same day of the month for the 2nd and 3rd months.

It's so difficult to comprehend and explain the depth of the significance of the 7th day of the week, the SABBATH. It has been chosen by the Holy One of Israel as the special day on which wonderful events in the plan of salvation are destined to occur. One of these events is the Day of "At--one--ment" (Day of Atonement). The Great At--one--ment will be the day when the sins on the books of record will be completely blotted out. Each day we have the full forgiveness of all of our sins when we repent. But on the fulfillment of the Day of Atonement all of these forgiven sins on record will be blotted out of the record books in heaven and out of our minds, so that we will not remember them. Then we will truly be one with Messiah! clothed in His white raiment.

The apostle Peter spoke of this great future event in Acts 3:19-21, which is to occur just before the second coming of Messiah.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." Acts 3:19-21 King James Version

"And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." Daniel 12:9, 10 King James Version

John in Revelation 3:5, says, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...."

For these significant reasons, we observe the Sabbath with such rejoicing, clothed in our best, all preparation made before the Sabbath begins in anticipation of the events promised on a future 7th day Sabbath Day of Atonement! This event will occur when the Day of Atonement falls on a 7th day Sabbath in a Jubile year when all the slaves are set free. (Leviticus 25:9, 10)

I've made such a lengthy post. I find I can hardly quit talking about these topics.
Shalom and Blessings,
kwolfe@starband.net

[BrotherArnold]

Someone wrote,

"Genesis 1:14.
When the HOLY ONE of Israel created the lights in the firmament, the sun, moon, and stars, He specifically designated them to be for understanding the times and the seasons, days and years.


Quote:
Revelation 12:1- "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"



The pure woman (Messiah's people) in Revelation is seen to be clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet. This would mean that she understands the relationship between the sun and the moon in the timing of the Messiah's plan of salvation. This understanding gives her the brilliance of the Sabbaths regulated by the sun and shows that she has conquered the mystery of the moon Sabbaths.



RESPONSE;I could argue that the pure woman (Messiah's people ) in Revelation is seen to be clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet. This shows that the moon that she is standing and that is the foundation of the appointments, including the weekly appointments. The moon is the foundation that she is standing on yet she acknowledges the sun also.

This would mean that she understands the relationship between the sun and the moon in the timing of the Messiah's plan of salvation and the feast days and the Sabbaths This understanding gives her the brilliance of the Sabbaths regulated by the moon and shows that she has conquered the mystery of the sun ONLY Sabbaths.

[BrotherArnold]

BrotherArnold,
I'm wondering how do you understand the Day of Atonement, "It shall be a Sabbath unto you." It is on the tenth day of the 7th month. Your listing of lunar Sabbaths shows the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and the 29th.

RESPONSE; Shalom Brother Kwolfe, I believe the Day of Atonement is also a Sabbath/intermission but it is not a weekly Sabbath that comes after six workdays per Leviticus 23 and the case law example in Genesis 1, and I was listing the weekly Sabbaths that comes on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and the 29th, new Moon worship days are not included when counting out the weeks.

You Wrote,

The first day of the seventh month is a lunar Sabbath, and the 15th and the 22nd of this same month. The Day of Atonement is the 10th day of the same month. These all are mentioned as lunar Sabbaths. In the original text the word used for the "Sabbath" for the Day of Atonement is the same word used for the seventh-day Sabbath. How can you explain this?

RESPONSE; not sure if I am following you but I believe that All His worship holy convocations are lunar based/intermissions.

You Wrote,

I do not find evidence that the 8th day and the 29th day of the seventh month are ever listed in the inspired Word as "Sabbaths".

RESPONSE; we know this by deductive reasoning, same as we know that the 22nd and 29th in the first month are lunar Sabbaths. I have a very short article on what is a scriptural seventh day at http://lunarsabbath.info/_wsn/page20.html perhaps you could read it and better understand where I’m coming from and if I’m wrong you can help me.

You Wrote,

“Concerning the first month, the 15th day is the first lunar Sabbath in the first month (Lev. 23:11). The 22nd is listed as a lunar Sabbath within the 50 day count of 7 Sabbaths to Pentecost; Pentecost being on the morrow after the 7th Sabbath, which would make NONE of these lunar Sabbaths harmonize or fall in sequence with the new moon of the 2nd or the 3rd month, as you say that they would, if I'm understanding you correctly. Just count them, yourself. You have exactly 50 days including the day of the Wave Sheaf Offering and including the Day of Pentecost. All these 7 Sabbaths that are listed within the 50 days are required to be calculated from the day of the Wave Sheaf Offering, which in turn is calculated from the new moon of the first month.

I would await your comments,
Blessings,
kwolfe@starband.net

RESPONSE; I understand exactly what you are saying but I number 50 days AFTER the seventh Sabbath complete instead of 50 days after the wave sheaf. There is no scripture for Pentecost in the third month. There is not even a feast mentioned in the third month for a 3rd month Pentecost. The law that was written by the finger of YHWH and given to Moshe WAS NOT in the third month, and there is no scriptural wheat harvest in the third month or harvest of any kind for that matter. please go to http://lunarsabbath.info/_wsn/page4.html and correct me if I’m wrong.


Brother Arnold

[kwolfe]

Greetings BrotherArnold,

Appreciate you responding.

In our effort to understand this vision that John saw of the pure woman, we must acknowledge a principle of natural law. As Paul wrote, "Doth not even nature itself teach you," 1 Cor. 11:14. The natural law is that the moon is only a reflector or a mirror. We need to always remember that the moon has no light of its own. There is no brilliance in the moon apart from the sun, absolutely none. Its light is only a reflection of the light of the sun. When you look at the moon, you actually see some of the brilliance of the sun reflected in the moon.

This bears some thought. She is clothed with the brilliance of the sun--that's a lot of brilliance. It is not reflected light that she is clothed with.

It is so wonderful that Messiah gave us these lessons in nature to teach us such deep spiritual truths. In each generation He gives us more light and understanding. How important that we follow on to know the whole truth. "The path of the just is as the shining light, which shineth more and more unto the perfect day."

Our prayer is that all of us, together, shall continue on that shining path.

Shalom and Blessings,
kwolfe@starband.net

[BrotherArnold]

Greetings BrotherArnold,

Appreciate you responding.

In our effort to understand this vision that John saw of the pure woman, we must acknowledge a principle of natural law. As Paul wrote, "Doth not even nature itself teach you," 1 Cor. 11:14. The natural law is that the moon is only a reflector or a mirror. We need to always remember that the moon has no light of its own. There is no brilliance in the moon apart from the sun, absolutely none. Its light is only a reflection of the light of the sun. When you look at the moon, you actually see some of the brilliance of the sun reflected in the moon.

This bears some thought. She is clothed with the brilliance of the sun--that's a lot of brilliance. It is not reflected light that she is clothed with.

It is so wonderful that Messiah gave us these lessons in nature to teach us such deep spiritual truths. In each generation He gives us more light and understanding. How important that we follow on to know the whole truth. "The path of the just is as the shining light, which shineth more and more unto the perfect day."

Our prayer is that all of us, together, shall continue on that shining path.

Shalom and Blessings,
kwolfe@starband.net

RESPONSE; I can agree with parts of what you say, but
Even if the moon is only a reflector, it is still a scriptural light/luminary and when He said that there be light, it is the Hebrew word luminaries. When He placed two great lights in the sky they were BOTH scriptural luminaries and it does not matter how they do their laminating. What matters is what their purpose was. When He said let "THEM" be for days and years, signs and seasons, it takes both of them to find the appointments, including the weekly appointment and he said what He has joined together, let not man put asunder.

[kwolfe]

BrotherArnold,

One principle that I made foundational for my research was that I would take evidence ONLY from inspired writings, as the Scripture says, "Cease from man, whose breath is in his nostrils:" Isaiah 2:22. Also, "Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm,..." Jeremiah 17:5.

So all uninspired commentaries, I laid aside, and prayed the Father to empty me of any preconceived ideas, as I did not value my own ideas and deductions or the deductions of commentaries, historical or otherwise, unless, of course, they were in support of the plain, written words of the Bible. We are admonished, "...lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5.

BrotherArnold, you said, "...if I’m wrong you can help me." and, "...correct me if I'm wrong."

No human can correct another. Only as Messiah's Holy Spirit turns the light on in the mind and heart, can the Inspired Word do the correction.
"All scripture is given by inspiraton of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for CORRECTION, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:15.

I have to be honest with myself and with you, but I see no light in your presentation. I see human deductions and uninspired commentaries
and Scripture wrested in its meaning.

The only hope any of us have to keep from deceiving ourselves and others is to use only His Word to guide us and pray that His Spirit will enlighten our mind. If we misapply the Word we deceive ourselves.

With brotherly love,
kwolfe@starband.net

[eriqbenel]

Arnold,

It is impossible to have intellectual debate with individuals that seem to be dwelling on some cosmic plane of thought. On the road to Emmaus, Messiah walked and talked with some disciples and reasoned with them from the Scripture, but you can't "walk" with someone whose feet are not on the ground...