The 15th is called the 7th day in the 1st month each year.

[BrotherArnold]

The "15th" is "referred" to as the "Seventh day".

There is a scripture that clearly teach that the 1st day of Unleavened bread/15th each year is the 7th day of the week and we have overlooked it because of our traditions. This verse alone proves Lunar Sabbaths.

In Exodus 13:6 it says,
"seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the "seventh day shall be a "feast" to the YHWH. 7Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days;"

Notice! it says, "the feast is "in" the SEVENTH DAY," (singular)

is the "Seventh day" that the feast/Chag is in, refering to the seventh day of the feast/21st or the seventh day of the week/15th?????

The above says, "In the "Seventh day" shall be a "feast" to the YHWH. Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days;"

If we put a comma instead of a period at the end of YHWH, it will read like this, "In the seventh day shall be a feast to YHWH, Unleavened Bread shall be eaten seven days"?. i.e. beginning on the seventh day which is the 15th (Chag) and it is the first day of the seven day feast, it is the ONLY day that is called a Chag.

From this verse we see conclusively that the "Chag"/feast is in the "seventh day and is called a feast, because of traditions, someone would think that the seventh day is referring to the seventh day of the feast/21st, that the Chag/feast is in, instead of the seventh day of the week, but I will show that the Chag is not in the seventh day of the feast but is in the first day of the feast which is the 15th, which is always the seventh day of the week.

The definition of the Word Chag is Strong's 2282

H2282

Chag châg
khag, khawg
A festival, or a victim therefore:—(solemn) feast (day), sacrifice, solemnity.

The Chag is simply referring to the day the Passover sacrifice or victim which is killed on the 14th and eaten with unleavened bread in the 15th which is the seventh day of the week, and a day to be much remembered, not the 21st or seventh or last day of the feast and the verse in question says that the Chag/victim is in the seventh day which is referring to the 15th not the 21st.

It continues after saying that the feast/chag is in the seventh day by repeating that " unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days"? i.e. it begins on the 15th/seventh day and continues 7 days.

"seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and "in" the seventh day (15th) shall be a feast (victim) to the YHWH. Unleavened bread shall be eaten (with it) seven days"?; (beginning on the 15th Sabbath or seventh day of the week.

Notice that seven days unleavened bread shall be eaten is repeated twice. The verse is simply saying that you are to eat unleavened bread for seven days and in the seventh day/15th is the Chag/victim which is eaten with unleavened bread and continues for seven days.

Once again the Chag is not in the 21st day, but is in the seventh day/15th and here are a few of many verses which conclusively prove that the 15th is the Chag/15th/seventh day, and NOT the 21st.

Numbers 28:16-17 16"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the YHWH. 17And "in" the "fifteenth" day of this month is the "feast": (Chag) seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten". (the 15th/Chag/seventh day begins the feast and lasts seven days.) NO WHERE is the 21st, (7th day of the feast) ever referred to as a chag.

Numbers 28:16-17 is almost identical wording as in Exodus 13:6.

The Hebrew word for "feast" in this verse is Chag/victim/sacrifice, it is killed on the 14th and eaten "in" the 15th with unleavened bread which continues for seven days, and the 15th is always called a Chag therefore the Chag or victim is in the 15th or seventh day, as Ex. 13:6 says, instead of the 21st, seventh day of the feast, which may be a no work day but is "never" called a Chag or weekly seventh day in the Scriptures.

Notice it says, "In the fifteenth day of this month is the "feast": (Chag) seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten", and in Exodus 13:6, which is our original verse, it says,

"In the "Seventh day" shall be a "feast" (Chag) to the YHWH. Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days"? Exodus 13:6

Almost identical wording.

I ask the question, is the Chag/victim in the 15th or in the seventh day?? Or is the 15th and seventh day one and the same?????

We now have case law from Scripture that the Chag is in the "Seventh day" and there is case law that the Chag is also in the "15th". When We understand that the weeks were originally by the moon and the 15th is always the seventh day of the Lunar week, the verse makes sense.

I will give you a few more Scriptures which prove the Chag is in the 15th day which is synonymous with "Seventh day" in Exodus 13:6

Leviticus 23:5-6 "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the YHWH's Passover. 6And on the "fifteenth" day of the same month is the "feast" of unleavened bread unto the YHWH: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Almost identical wording "again".

And again the Hebrew word feast is Chag and it says that the Chag is on or in the 15th which is one of the two seventh days that Philo the Jew spoke of and says there is one seventh that don't come after the number six during the 7 day feast but comes before it. It is the same seventh day of the week that he says the feasts are assigned to and lasts 7 days and Philo also said "it (15th) is the seventh day of seven days." (see my Philo article at http://www.lunarsabbath.org/Jews%20Obse ... 20Did.html)

This is also the same seventh day that the Hebrew text is referring to when it says "The morrow after the Sabbath/15th the Priest shall wave it" and the same as when the Greek Septuagint says the morrow after the "First day"/15th the Priest shall wave it.

It is because of the traditions of men, some will try to argue that the seventh day in Exodus 13:6 is not referring to the seventh day of the week but to the seventh day of the feast, even though they do not have one conclusive Scripture showing where the feast/Chag was ever in the 21st but was always in the 15th and is even called a sign in Exodus 13:9, and we know the Sabbath is a sign and there is no other pinpointed sign day other than the 15th/Sabbath.

Here is one more for good measure, Psm-81:3-6, "3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn "feast" day. (15th/Chag)
4 For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the YHWH of Jacob.
5 This he ordained in Joseph for a testimony, when he went out through the land of Egypt: where I heard a language that I understood not.
6 I removed his shoulder from the burden: his hands were delivered from the pots.

Notice feast day is singular and is on the 15th that they were delivered from the burbens of Egypt (Num-33:3). The 15th is the Chag/seventh day that they were delivered from Egypt's bondage and according to Deut-5:13-15, the 15th was on the weekly Sabbath day.

13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the YHWH thy YHWH: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor ....15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the YHWH thy Mighty One brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the YHWH thy Mighty One commanded thee to keep the "sabbath day/15th/Chag.

Why? Because that is the day He gave them rest from Egypt's bondage therefore they were to keep the Sabbath day and Deut-16:1-3 says "observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover .... 3Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, ...that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life. The Chag is in the 15th which is the weekly Sabbath and we are to eat unleavened bread seven days.

Side note:

When examining Deuteronomy 16:4 you will see that the Passover is eaten on the first day of unleavened bread followed by the six more days of unleavened bread and on the seventh day could be referring to the 22nd, same as in the feast of tabernacles because it teaches that in the morning after they ate the Passover with unleavened bread they went into their tents and then six more days of unleavened bread was kept and then on the seventh day, which is the 22nd and the solemn assembly that is spoken of. The seventh day could be referring to the 15th as it is in Exodus 13:6 or it could be referring to the seventh day of the feast, or it could be referring to the seventh day after six more days of unleavened bread which is the 22nd. The traditional Sabbath keepers has only one option and that is that this is referring to the seventh day of the feast but with lunar Sabbaths either one of the three will work but two of them will killed the traditional Saturday Sabbath. Read More Conclusive Proof at http://lunarsabbath.us/_wsn/page4.html

[JMSchattke]

Despite your many words, the hebrew does not support you.

Exo 13:6 ש×?בעת7651 ימי×?3117 ת×?כל398 מצת4682 וביו×?3117 הש×?ביעי7637 ×—×’2282 ליהוה׃3068

Very clearly "at the day seventh feast to יהוה" - also, very clearly from the start of the "seven days to consume unleavened bread

[BrotherArnold]

"Despite your many words, the hebrew does not support you.

Exo 13:6 ש×?בעת7651 ימי×?3117 ת×?כל398 מצת4682 וביו×?3117 הש×?ביעי7637 ×—×’2282 ליהוה׃3068

Very clearly "at the day seventh feast to יהוה" - also, very clearly from the start of the "seven days to consume unleavened bread."


RESPONSE; what kind of response is that??? Can you please be more SPECIFIC??? It is easy to say the Hebrew does not support but that is no answer to the above article that I have written. The scholars translated it into English and that is what I am reading from. Did the scholars not know Hebrew either? Is that what you're saying?

I wrote in my article that "In Exodus 13:6 it says,

"seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the "Seventh day" shall be a "feast" to the YHWH. 7Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days;"

Notice! it says, "the feast is "in" the SEVENTH DAY," (singular)

is the "Seventh day" that the feast/Chag is in, refering to the seventh day of the feast/21st or the seventh day of the week/15th?????"

In my article I also conclusively proved from Scripture that the 15th is called a Chag and not once is the 21st ever called a Chag, therefore the 15th is the Chag/seventh day spoken of in Exodus 13:6.

I wrote,

"i will give you a few more Scriptures which prove the Chag is in the 15th day which is synonymous with "Seventh day" in Exodus 13:6

Leviticus 23:5-6 "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the YHWH's Passover. 6And on the "fifteenth" day of the same month is the "feast/Chag" of unleavened bread unto the YHWH: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Almost identical wording "again".

And again the Hebrew word feast is Chag and it says that the Chag is on or in the 15th.


DOES THE HEBREW square with the Chag being on the 15th? YES! Is there any Hebrew that calls the 21st a Chag??? NO! Is there any Hebrew that specifically calls the 15 a Chag YES! SO DOn't TELL ME I DOn't HAVE NO HEBREW SUPPORT. It is you that is lacking in Hebrew support. Please read the above again and lets Intelligently discuss it, using what the scholars has translated into English, and then we can go to what YOU SAY they should have translated if need be.

[chuckbaldwin]

------:roll:
SIGH!!
------:roll:

[JMSchattke]

Um - wow. And here I thought I was clear, BrotherArnold.

The translation is correct, but you misunderstand it.

Literally, it is:
Seven Days eating unleavened and day seventh feast to Yehvah

[BrotherArnold]

Um - wow. And here I thought I was clear, BrotherArnold.

The translation is correct, but you misunderstand it.

Literally, it is:
Seven Days eating unleavened and day seventh feast to Yehvah

RESPONSE; I am not challenging the translation, I am challenging the traditional understanding. I believe day SEVENTH is refering to the 15th BECAUSE of the Hebrew word for feast is CHAG and the last day of the feast is not the CHAG. Please give scripture if you think otherwise.

[BrotherArnold]

Here is the quote from an eye witness that was a priest that lived back then, concerning the TWO seventh days during the feast.

THE DECALOGUE XXX (158-159)

XXX. (158) And the fourth commandment, the one about the seventh day, we must not look upon in any other light than as a summary of all the laws relating to festivals, and of all the purificatory rites enjoined to be observed on each of them. But the service appointed for them was one of holy ablutions, and prayers deserving to be heard, and perfect sacrifices.

(159) And in speaking of the seventh here, I mean both that which is combined with the number six, the most generative of all numbers, and also that which, without being combined with the number six, is added to it, being made to resemble the unit, each of which numbers is reckoned among the festivals; for the lawgiver refers to the term, the sacred festival of the new moon, which the people give notice of with trumpets, and the day of fasting, on which abstinence from all meats and drinks is enjoined, which the Hebrews call, in their native language, pascha, on which the whole nation sacrifices, each individual among them, not waiting for the priests, since on this occasion the law has given, for one especial day in every year, a priesthood to the whole nation, so that each private individual slays his own victim on this day.

[BrotherArnold]

Um - wow. And here I thought I was clear, BrotherArnold.

The translation is correct, but you misunderstand it.

Literally, it is:
Seven Days eating unleavened and day seventh feast to Yehvah

RESPONSE; I am not challenging the translation, I am challenging the traditional understanding. I believe day SEVENTH is refering to the 15th BECAUSE of the Hebrew word for feast is CHAG and the last day of the feast is not the CHAG. Please give scripture if you think otherwise.

[JMSchattke]

(sigh)

Much hulabaloo between logins.

Luneee - Jay Vincent: It's not arrogance. It's not unsubstantiated.

Yes, Ex:13 is susceptible to misunderstanding by exegesis if you are searching for seventh days that fall on feast days. But to read "the seventh day" in Exodus 13:6 as meaning the first day, well, that's being really, really obtuse.

Here is why I say that the seventh day is the seventh day of the seven day feast:
(Jewish Publication Society translation)
Lev 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at dusk, is YHWH'S passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto YHWH; seven days ye shall eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work.
Lev 23:8 And ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto YHVH seven days; in the seventh day is a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work.

See - two "chag" in that feast... first and seventh days - of the feast.

No matter how you slice it, both of those cannot coincide with a weekly sabbath.

The whole of scripture cries out against your interpretations, Albert.

[Watchman555]

(sigh)
No matter how you slice it, both of those cannot coincide with a weekly sabbath.

????

Arnold,

I do understand what you are saying; although, the clarity of it is kind of vague. As are many things, as far as being absolutely conclusive. I guess that gives the enemy something to work with.

One point I would like to see explained, that is, isn't the whole of ULB and Sukkoth a Chag that lasts 7 days? In other words, isn't the festival for the whole 7 days. I say that because there are offerings for every day of these feasts. The difference I see between the 15th and the 21st is on the 1st day of ULB is a qodesh miqra (set-apart gathering) and the 7th day of the feast, the 21st is called an `atsarah (#6116 - solemn assembly).

~Shalom, Greg

[BrotherArnold]

(sigh)

Much hulabaloo between logins.

Luneee - Jay Vincent: It's not arrogance. It's not unsubstantiated.

Yes, Ex:13 is susceptible to misunderstanding by exegesis if you are searching for seventh days that fall on feast days. But to read "the seventh day" in Exodus 13:6 as meaning the first day, well, that's being really, really obtuse.

Here is why I say that the seventh day is the seventh day of the seven day feast:
(Jewish Publication Society translation)
Lev 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at dusk, is YHWH'S passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto YHWH; seven days ye shall eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work.
Lev 23:8 And ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto YHVH seven days; in the seventh day is a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work.

See - two "chag" in that feast... first and seventh days - of the feast.

No matter how you slice it, both of those cannot coincide with a weekly sabbath.

The whole of scripture cries out against your interpretations, Albert.

RESPONSE; you said, "Yes, Ex:13 is susceptible to misunderstanding by exegesis if you are searching for seventh days that fall on feast days. But to read "the seventh day" in Exodus 13:6 as meaning the first day, well, that's being really, really obtuse."

Why did Philo say that one of the seventh days comes after the number six, which we know to be the last day of the feast/21st, and the other seventh day DOES NOT COME AFTER the number six but comes BEFORE IT and resembles the unit/one?

The only way Philo could have said this is because he was a lunar Sabbath Man.

THE DECALOGUE XXX (158-159)

XXX. (158) And the fourth commandment, the one about the seventh day, we must not look upon in any other light than as a summary of all the laws relating to festivals, and of all the purificatory rites enjoined to be observed on each of them. But the service appointed for them was one of holy ablutions, and prayers deserving to be heard, and perfect sacrifices.

(159) And in speaking of the seventh here, I mean both that which is combined with the number six, the most generative of all numbers, and also that which, without being combined with the number six, is added to it, being made to resemble the unit, each of which numbers is reckoned among the festivals; for the lawgiver refers to the term, the sacred festival of the new moon, which the people give notice of with trumpets, and the day of fasting, on which abstinence from all meats and drinks is enjoined, which the Hebrews call, in their native language, pascha, on which the whole nation sacrifices, each individual among them, not waiting for the priests, since on this occasion the law has given, for one especial day in every year, a priesthood to the whole nation, so that each private individual slays his own victim on this day.

[BrotherArnold]

I accept my challenge and I will begin by copying and pasting the following.

Most people reading this literature will be familiar with a spring festival on YHWH's calendar known collectively as the Festival of the Passover and Unleavened Bread. Within this time, we have the memorial of the killing of the Passover lamb, followed by eating unleavened bread for seven consecutive days. We have a holy convocation on the first and seventh day of the festival, and enjoy fellowship with other brethren throughout the feast. Within the writings of Scripture concerning this time, there is an intricate piece of evidence in favor of the lunar based Sabbath for the seeker of truth who desires to look in the matters which YHWH has concealed (Proverbs 25:2).

We begin our search in Exodus 12 where we find the instructions on how to observe the festival. The lamb is to be slaughtered at beyn ha erebim, or between the evenings on the 14th day of Aviv (Exodus 12:6). This is correctly understood to be around what we would call 3:00 p.m., or at the going down of the sun after its apex in the heavens at high noon, the same time YHWH killed His Passover lamb (the Messiah - Isaiah 53:4; Matthew 27:45; John 19:14). After the lamb is slaughtered, we are commanded to eat unleavened bread and bitter herbs with it that night (Exodus 12: 8 ). This eating of the lamb takes place on the 15th of Aviv, the day that the children of Israel were delivered from the land of Egypt. Commenting on this day, Exodus 12:14 says:



And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to YHWH throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.



Here we see that the 15th day is a memorial day. It keeps us in memory of YHWH's deliverance for the Israelites of that time, from Egyptian slavery. This deliverance began when YHWH passed over the houses in the land of Egypt at midnight on the 15th of Aviv and did not allow the destroyer to come into the homes of the families that had obeyed His orders. Verse 17 of this same chapter then states:



And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever. [Exodus 12:17]

While the verse above commands us to observe the entire feast of unleavened bread, it specifies a particular day we are to observe. This is the same day mentioned as being a feast Hebrew, chag.

[JMSchattke]

The point I have been making, over and over, is that trying to make fine distinctions of meaning in a translation is a very risky undertaking.

If you want to know what Philo really meant, you need to learn greek and read the passage in Greek. Otherwise, you're on very, very shaky ground.

[BrotherArnold]

The point I have been making, over and over, is that trying to make fine distinctions of meaning in a translation is a very risky undertaking.

If you want to know what Philo really meant, you need to learn greek and read the passage in Greek. Otherwise, you're on very, very shaky ground.

RESPONSE; I am simply reading it how the Greek translators translated it, and that is that Philo teaches they are TWO seventh days during the feast, one that comes after the number six and one that does not come after the number six but comes before it. I am not the one that translated it into English. See Philo THE DECALOGUE XXX (158-159) XXX. (158)


If the translators had said that Philo said that they are TWO seventh days during the feast, one that comes after the number six and one that does not come after the number six but can come anywhere during the feast, people in the traditional Sabbath would understand that. But that is not what Philo taugh because he understood that the weeks were by the phases of the moon and at the end of a lunar week you have a lunar Sabbath and at the end of the second lunar week, you have a full moon. This is what the translators says he says, and it is in harmony with the Scripture, I do not have to learn to speak Greek when they have translated it for us. See Philo THE DECALOGUE XXX (158-159) XXX. (158)


Brother Arnold

[Watchman555]

from Justin
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration."

First apology of Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68



If nothing else, this might show the possibility that there was only ONE Sabbath between the Messiah's death and resurrection.

from Hebrew Roots
Sabbath, Seventh Day, Week:

Philo NEVER uses the terminology of the Greek version of the New Testament for these words. He never calls the week or the 7th day the "Sabbath" , transliterating the Hebrew into Greek, but generally calls it the "seventh day". The only exception is when he explains what the Hebrew word "Sabbath" means. In Special Laws , II, 194, he talks of how Yom Kippurim is called "a "Sabbath of Sabbaths or as the Greeks would say, a seven of sevens."

So he even calls the annual feasts that fall in the middle of the week "seventh day"(s) in Greek.

http://www.hebrew-roots.com/html/index. ... cle&sid=96

Maybe he was not using the concept of the traditional modern week??

~Greg