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30 Day Months Myth

For the open discussion of all calendar related issues.

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BrotherArnold
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30 Day Months Myth

Postby BrotherArnold » 11 Nov 2007, 03:07

30 Day Month Myth

Some people claim that the months were originally 30 days each and one thing used to establish this is the book of Genesis where it teaches that the flood prevailed upon the earth for 150 days, from the 17th of the second month until the 17th of the seventh month.

First of all this has nothing to do with a calendar but rather a time of how long the water prevailed upon the earth because your counting from the MIDDLE of the second month into the MIDDLE of the seventh month which is actually 151 days not 150 days, but at any rate they’re not five full months/moons because they began in the MIDDLE of one month to the middle of another month.

What if it has said that the waters prevailed upon the earth for 140 days instead of 150 and the ark rested on the 7th day of the seventh month, instead of the 17th, would that make the months originally 28 days long, just because five times 28 is 140??? NO it would not and neither does the other make the months originally 30 days long. It has nothing to do with the calendar.

Even though this is not even a calendar Issue, I will show how it is possible to arrive at 150 days NOT 151 days by using the ordinances of the moon as they exist today. First of all I hope everyone understands that the moon is 29 ½ point so many days each month and it is possible to have a 29 day month one month and the 30-day month the next and it is also possible to have two 30-day months back-to-back or even two 29 days most back-to-back but at any rate I will show you how is possible.

If the second month was a 30-day month and the flood began on the 17th day of that 30-day month you would have 14 days left over, before the 2nd 30-day month began and if you had a 29 day month after the second 30-day month and then two more 30-day months back-to-back, your count would look like this,

14 days left of the second month plus 30 days of the third month plus 29 days of the fourth month plus 30 days of the fifth month plus 30 days of the six-month plus the 17 days of the seventh month which equals 150 days. Remember the other count yields 151 days instead of 150 days, when drawn out on a sheet of paper, try it yourself.

Furthermore the Scripture teaches the ordinance of the moon will not change or Israel would cease to be a nation. The moon has not sped up from it taking 30 days to orbit the Earth, to 29 and one half. The above does not prove 30 day months and neither does Daniel or Revelations, which I will deal with later.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 14 Nov 2007, 03:55

Arnold, i can address the above with 2 words: I disagree! :mrgreen:
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 14 Nov 2007, 12:53

chuckbaldwin wrote:Arnold, i can address the above with 2 words: I disagree! :mrgreen:



..said the fox the hound...
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

chosen
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chuck

Postby chosen » 14 Nov 2007, 15:21

can you prove your point, chuck?

chosen

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 15 Nov 2007, 00:11

Shalom Brother Chuck and All,

I can't seem to wrap my mind around the idea that the flood could affect the moon/month.

I know that the water prevailed (or was strong) upon the earth for 150 days and they started in the 2nd month on the 17th day and the ark rested on the 17th day of the 7th month.

And I know that 5 times 30 is 150 BUT that does not mean that the months were 30 day months, no more than it would prove 29 day months, if the waters prevailed for 145 days and they started in the 2nd month on the 17th day and the ark rested on the 12th day of the 7th month, after all 5 times 29 is 145, and by the same logic someone could argue 29 day months.

Remember the word for Moon is mentioned, and it was around the middle of the 2nd and 7th MOON when the count of the 150 days began and ended NOT a solar only calendar where the 1st day of the month could have landed on the 17th of the 2nd MOON and again 5 solar months later on the 17th day of the Lunar MOON/ month. Actually it is 151 days if you count the day 1st day/17th of the 2nd month unto and count the 17th day of the 7th month.

It is no different than saying that Noah’s ship sprung a leak in the 2nd month on the 17th day and the he fixed it on the 17th day of the 7th month and therefore the months were 30 day months. What did the leak have to do with the Month/Moon???


Bottom line is no one has tried to show me how the water that started in the 2nd month on the 17th day (middle of month) and the ark rested on the 17th day (middle) of the 7th month, had anything AT ALL to do with a CALENDAR..

Brother Arnold

Ps it is like the myth that Noah preached for 120 years while the ark was prepared which is absolutely scripturally impossible.
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

chuckbaldwin
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Re: chuck

Postby chuckbaldwin » 15 Nov 2007, 06:22

chosen wrote:can you prove your point, chuck?
Arnold has already given my proof. But then he turns around and attempts to deny it...
The water prevailed upon the earth for 150 days and they started in the 2nd month on the 17th day and the ark rested on the 17th day of the 7th month.
Do the math. From 2/17 to 7/17 is exactly 5 months. 150 days divided by 5 = 30 days per month.

My understanding is that the original cycles of the sun & moon were perfect. But man sinned. To reflect this and show YHWH's provision for redemption..
1. The solar & lunar cycles were put out of sync,
2. The day was changed from dawn-dawn to even-even.
3. The new year was changed from fall to spring.
All this will be changed back at the "restitution of all things. :idea:
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

ErichMatthewJanzen
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Postby ErichMatthewJanzen » 15 Nov 2007, 11:11

Hi, Chuck

If in fact a calendar is portrayed in these verses, it does not prove that all the months in between the 17th day of the 2nd month and the 17th day of the 7th month had 30 days. The sequence would not go 30, 30, 30, 30, 30; it would rather go 30, 30, 29, 30, 30, and 29. You would have 2 months of 30 days back to back on each side of a “sandwichedâ€

chosen
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Postby chosen » 15 Nov 2007, 15:21

Chuck,

you said:

"2. The day was changed from dawn-dawn to even-even. "


scriptures please.

Shalom,

chosen

BrotherArnold
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Re: chuck

Postby BrotherArnold » 15 Nov 2007, 18:46

chuckbaldwin wrote:
chosen wrote:can you prove your point, chuck?
Arnold has already given my proof. But then he turns around and attempts to deny it...
The water prevailed upon the earth for 150 days and they started in the 2nd month on the 17th day and the ark rested on the 17th day of the 7th month.
Do the math. From 2/17 to 7/17 is exactly 5 months. 150 days divided by 5 = 30 days per month.


RESPONSE; Shalom Brother Chuck. you always make me smile and even laugh at those smiley faces, I will try to do them.

You are assuming that Noah was on a strictly solar calendar in order for the first day of the MONTH to begin on the 17th day of the MOON but you are overlooking the fact that the 17th of the Moon is where they are counting from, not a solar calendar 1st day of the month. How do you prove the 17th of the MOON was the same as or equal with the 1st day of the MONTH????? That is the only way your argument makes any sense.

If Noah's boat started to leak in the 2nd month on the 17th day and the leak repared on the 17th day of the 7th month, would that also prove 30 day months just because From 2/17 to 7/17 is exactly 5 months? 150 days divided by 5 = 30 days per month. What if the waters prevailed on the earth for 145 days, until the 12th day of the 7th month, would that make the months 29 days long because 5 times 29 is 145. Do the math. The water had nothing to do with the months or calendar. You have been flimed flamed again! Like the sign of Jonah.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 16 Nov 2007, 06:04

chosen wrote:Chuck, you said:
"2. The day was changed from dawn-dawn to even-even. "
scriptures please.
Dawn-dawn = Gen.1:5, 8, etc. :arrow: "Elohim said", and performed His work for that day, "and it became evening, and it became morning, day 1 [2,3,4,5,6]".

Even-even: Ex.16 & the acounts of Yahshua's last Passover & execution.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

chosen
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Postby chosen » 16 Nov 2007, 07:38

chuck,

you said,
"and it became evening, and it became morning, day 1"


That does not prove dawn to dawn reconning for a day. In fact, I think it proves evening to evening for a day.

Shalom,

chosen

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 17 Nov 2007, 06:20

chosen wrote:chuck, you said,
"and it became evening, and it became morning, day 1"
That does not prove dawn to dawn reconning for a day. In fact, I think it proves evening to evening for a day.


[Reply moved to "When Does the Day Begin"]
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

BrotherArnold
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Re: chuck

Postby BrotherArnold » 20 Nov 2007, 05:02

chuckbaldwin wrote:
chosen wrote:can you prove your point, chuck?
Arnold has already given my proof. But then he turns around and attempts to deny it...
The water prevailed upon the earth for 150 days and they started in the 2nd month on the 17th day and the ark rested on the 17th day of the 7th month.
Do the math. From 2/17 to 7/17 is exactly 5 months. 150 days divided by 5 = 30 days per month.

My understanding is that the original cycles of the sun & moon were perfect. But man sinned. To reflect this and show YHWH's provision for redemption..
1. The solar & lunar cycles were put out of sync,
2. The day was changed from dawn-dawn to even-even.
3. The new year was changed from fall to spring.
All this will be changed back at the "restitution of all things. :idea:


Shalom Brother Chuck.

How can you prove that the 17th day of the 2nd and 7th moon/month was the 1st day of a solar month????

That is the only way I see that it would prove 30 day solar months. Brother Mathew and I have demonstrated how you could have 2 thirty day months then 1 twenty nine day month then 2 more 30 day months and it would be 150 days.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

chuckbaldwin
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Location: East Ridge, TN

Re: chuck

Postby chuckbaldwin » 21 Nov 2007, 05:01

BrotherArnold wrote:How can you prove that the 17th day of the 2nd and 7th moon/month was the 1st day of a solar month????
I never said it was. I believe that the sun & moon were in sync at that time, so the 17th day of the lunar month would be the SAME as the 17th day of the solar month.[/quote]That is the only way I see that it would prove 30 day solar months. Brother Mathew and I have demonstrated how you could have 2 thirty day months then 1 twenty nine day month then 2 more 30 day months and it would be 150 days.[/quote]While that's possible, it's very unlikely. But in any case, 30+30+29+30+30 = 149, NOT 150. I'm sure you'll NEVER find even 4 30-day months in a row, much less 5, which is what would be required.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 21 Nov 2007, 06:25

not so, draw it out on a sheat of paper and counting the 17 of the 2nd month through the 17th of the 7th month is 150 days fo corse I have had people try to argue that eather the 1st 17th when the water started or the last 17th when the ark rested wos not counted which would make 149 but when both 17th are counted it is 150. Do the math.


as for the solar month you mentioned, I have never seen or heard of a solar month in scripture.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info


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