"The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding"

Is the Full Moon (light) the new moon?

For the open discussion of all calendar related issues.

Moderator: Watchman555

User avatar
Posts: 183
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 16:57
Location: Northeast Indiana

Is the Full Moon (light) the new moon?

Postby Watchman555 » 12 Mar 2014, 21:06

Concerning the full moon being the new moon, we will take a look at this individual’s “proof text” to see if it is accurate. Here is the link: LINK

Here is what was said:

"Ps 81:3 “Blow the trumpet in the Chodesh [month], at the covered moon [dark moon phase], on the day of our feast.”
Hebrew transliteration: Tiq`uw ba-Chodesh shophar bakeseh lyom chagenu.
The Hebrew word "keseh" Strong #3680 (kayin, samek, he) as covered/concealed/hidden/darkened."

First of all we have to understand that in Psalms 81:3 the word in question is Strong’s number 3677 and NOT 3680. I notice that they have said nothing about 3677; which means:

Strong’s concordance:

כּסה כּסא
kese' keseh
keh'-seh, keh'-seh
Apparently from H3680; properly fulness or the full moon, that is, its festival: - (time) appointed.

The NAS Exhaustive Concordance and Brown-Driver-Briggs both associate ‘kese’ with full moon:


And from a secular level:

Definition of FULL MOON : the moon with its whole apparent disk illuminated


Common understanding is that the full moon means full of light and as we can see that ‘kese’ stems from 3680; which means to plump or to fill up; to cover as in clothing for secrecy.

Strong’s concordance:


A primitive root; properly to plump, that is, fill up hollows; by implication to cover (for clothing or secrecy): - clad self, close, clothe, conceal, cover (self), (flee to) hide, overwhelm. Compare H3780

Now we will compare with 3780 – to grow fat/be covered.

Strong’s concordance:


A primitive root; to grow fat (that is, be covered with flesh): - be covered. Compare H3680.


Now what was his given definition? He said: “The Hebrew word "keseh" Strong #3680 (kayin, samek, he) as covered/concealed/hidden/DARKENED. “

In all of our research here so far we see no mention of “darkened”. It is purely assumption on his part that in Psalms 81:3 it is referencing a darkening of the moon. At this point we’re going to back track and look at this verse again:

Psa 81:3 Blow up H8628 the trumpet H7782 in the new moon, H2320 in the time appointed, H3677 on our solemn feast H2282 day. H3117

First thing we need to establish is what is the new moon?

Strong’s concordance:


From H2318; the new moon; by implication a month: - month (-ly), new moon.

Strong’s concordance:


A primitive root; to be new; causatively to rebuild: - renew, repair.

Here we can see a very similar case. ‘Kese’ is referring to a full moon with its own special word; much like ‘chodesh’ is referring to the new moon and by implication a month; which stems from the word ‘chadesh’ which means to be new, causatively to rebuild which ties hand in hand with the understanding of the moon being filled up or plumped up which culminates on the 14th or 15th day of the month.

Now the question comes to mind since ‘chodesh’ is referring to the moon and its progress in rebuilding itself - what is it rebuilding? It can only be referring to rebuilding the light or rebuilding the darkness. If one begins the new month after conjunction (its dark part) and gradually light is added to it then it is the light that is rebuilding or filling up. If one begins the new month at the full moon (its light part) then the month is rebuilding darkness rather than light; filling up with darkness.

We know that the new moon is to rebuild, those who begin the month on the full moon by default would have to claim that it is the darkness that rebuilds itself rather than the light.

Since they claim that ‘kese’ by their own inference is referring to the darkness then we must be good Bereans and search out this word to see if all instances are in fact referring to darkening.

Here is what this article states:

“Ps 81:4 “For it is a statute for Yisrael, an ordinance of the El of Yaaqob (Jacob)." These verses explain that the day of our feast only comes to the Feast (Chag) of Unleavened Bread (Matzot), similary with the Feast (Chag) of Shavuot, and the Feast (Chag) of Sukkot. It happened when the children of Yisrael departed from the land of Egypt on the 15th of Abib (1st month). The covered/dark moon appears all the day of our feast of Unleavened Bread on the 15th of Abib. The full moon only rules all the night, not all the day.”

RESPONSE: Yes, the feast days are in the middle of the month, but a covered dark moon is not going to appear “all the day of the feast of ULB on the 15th”. Correct me if I’m wrong here, but in this day and age it would be an absolute impossibility to SEE a dark covered moon APPEAR. As a matter fact this makes no sense at all as we know Genesis 1:14 says that the sun and moon are for SIGNS and MO’EDIM. The 15th day of the month is a mo’ed and their sign is a darkened moon that cannot be seen at all? Those that understand ‘kese’ as being a full of light moon will have a full moon on their feast day that is a visible sign. On one hand Genesis 1:14 tells us that the mo’edim will have a sign but yet this study is showing us that the full moon has no sign to be seen.


“The Pesach Lamb's blood washes our sins (works of death/darkness) so that His Love covers the multitude of sins because we repent from the kingdom of darkness, in order to restore back to His Kingdom of Light.

Colossians 1:13-14 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 26:17-18 (He) rescues you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to Elohim, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.”

RESPONSE: I think there is an underlying assumption here that would tie in works of death and darkness/kingdom of darkness to those who would begin the month at the moon’s dark period. But the opposite side of the coin is that Pesach they would have to say was an act done in darkness or the concealed moon. The event/mo’ed would have been marked/sign by darkness. Yet the Scripture tells us that this act of Yahusha being on the stake was an act of love – there is no greater love than one that would give their own life for another. This is exactly what Yahusha did. In my estimation it would be the greatest amount of light that a lamp could give off; such as the moon. The full moon is a representation of the perfection of the light process which is marked with a sign on the day of His death when I am sure a full moon was rising as they were taking Yahusha off the stake and preparing His body.

Now let’s take a look at a few Scriptures where the word ‘kâsâh’ is used. Remember, he is equating this word with “covered/concealed/hidden/DARKENED”. Remember, if he is going to maintain that this word automatically associates itself with ‘darkened’, well, you decide for yourself…..

Strong’s concordance:


A primitive root; properly to plump, that is, fill up hollows; by implication to cover (for clothing or secrecy): - clad self, close, clothe, conceal, cover (self), (flee to) hide, overwhelm. Compare H3780

Sin is covered.

Psa 32:1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered (H3680).

If the forgiveness of sin covers the sin then the forgiveness is dark??

Psa 85:2 You shall take away the crookedness of Your people; You shall cover (H3680) all their sin. Selah.

So, Yahuah takes away the crookedness of the people and He shall cover their sins with…. Darkness??

Pro 10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers (H3680) all transgressions.

If love covers transgression then love is……darkness??

1Jn_1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from Him and announce to you, that Elohim is light AND IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL.

If it is Elohim that forgives us of our transgressions and covers our sins by His love then we will know that it is NOT darkness that does any one of these things because in Him there is NO DARKNESS at all. It cannot be darkness that covers our sins – it has to be the Light of the world that causes our sins to be forgiven.

Continuing we will see this same word used to show that the covering does not always conceal in darkness:

Num 9:15-16 16 And on the day that the Dwelling Place was raised up, the cloud covered (H3680) the Dwelling Place, the Tent of the Witness. From evening until morning it was above the Dwelling Place like the appearance of fire.
Num 9:16 Thus it was continually: the cloud covered (H3680) it by day, and the appearance of fire by night.

I don’t believe that the cloud covered the dwelling place as in “to conceal” the dwelling place in darkness. As it says in verse 15 from evening until morning it was above the Dwelling Place in the appearance of fire. Fire gives off ‘owr’ which is light. We have the cloud that covered by day and the appearance was a fire by night. Now the cloud could have been a dark cloud but did it actually cover the Dwelling Place so it could not be seen or was it that the cloud hovered over the Dwelling Place as did the fire?

We have to realize that there are other words that can mean relatively the same thing as H3680 and to show that there are two words that are used here is Psalm 105:39 that also describes the cloud as a covering ‘masak’.


Num 9:16 Thus it was continually: the cloud covered (H3680) it by day, and the appearance of fire by night.

Psa 105:39 He spread a cloud for a covering (H4539), And fire to give light in the night.

Strong’s concordance:


From H5526; a cover, that is, veil: - covering, curtain, hanging.

What is the point? 105:39 is describing a covering also which tells us that the fire that was at night gave LIGHT in the night. The covering, the 3680, is described as a fire in Numbers 9:16, in Psalm 105:39 the fire is described as a light. We can conclude that light that comes from the fire can be a covering.

Another point is that these words (4539 and 3680) are interchangeable and 4539 does not indicate light nor dark; rather just a covering.

Num 16:42 And it came to be, when the congregation assembled against Mosheh and against Aharon, that they turned toward the Tent of Meeting. And see, the cloud covered (H3680) it, and the esteem of יהוה appeared.

The esteem of Yahuah is darkness??

Hab 3:3 Eloah comes from Tĕman, And the Set-apart One from Mount Paran. Selah. His splendor shall cover (H3680) the heavens, And His praise shall fill the earth. Hab 3:4 AND THE BRIGHTNESS IS AS THE LIGHT, HE HAS RAYS FROM HIS HAND, And there His power is hidden.

Is the splendor of Eloah darkness?? Or is the splendor that covers the heavens the light? Isn’t it the light that causes us to see the beauty of the stars? Isn’t it the light that causes the beauty of the sky? If this covering was to indicate darkness then what would we see in the heavens with our eyes that would be splendorous? The darkness??

Let’s look at some more ways the word ‘kâsâh’ is used:

Gen 7:19-20 19 And the waters were exceedingly mighty on the earth, and all the high mountains under all the heavens were covered (H3680).
Gen 7:20 The waters became mighty, fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered (H3680).
Now the covering of the mountains at the time of the flood was water as indicated in v. 19; because the waters were exceedingly mighty the mountains were covered (H3680) with water.

Psa 104:6 You covered (H3680) it with the deep as with a garment; The waters stood above the mountains.

Same thing, the waters covered. The waters filled up.

Psa 106:11
And waters covered (H3680) their adversaries; Not one of them was left.

Here again, the adversaries were covered with water. The question as – does covering something with water cause darkness? The answer is no – water is clear, barring sediment disturbance. The sediment itself is not the water. The waters covered the earth, the waters covered the adversaries, as do the waters cover the beaches. As we can see from the pictures even though the waters cover it does not cause darkness.


So clear you can see the shadow of the turtle.


What is the definition again?

Strong’s concordance:


A primitive root; properly to plump, that is, fill up hollows; by implication to cover (for clothing or secrecy): - clad self, close, clothe, conceal, cover (self), (flee to) hide, overwhelm. Compare H3780

Fill up. What happens when you fill up a glass with water?


Notice that the water did not cause darkness?

To be fair there are times when 3680 is specifically used in conjunction with darkness. But because it is used in conjunction with darkness by any means does not suggest that any time the word is used it is to be associated with darkness.

Ecc 6:3 If a man brings forth a hundred children and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but his being is not satisfied with goodness, or indeed he has no burial, I say that a premature birth is better than he,
Ecc 6:4 for it comes in futility and goes away in darkness, and in darkness (H2822) its name is covered (H3680);

Strong’s concordance:


From H2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: - dark (-ness), night, obscurity.

It is not only associated with darkness, but is associated with shadow/shade as well. We know that shadow/shade is not complete darkness. In other words, in the midst of shadow or shade one can still see.

Psa 80:10 Hills were covered (H3680) with its shadow (H6738), And the mighty cedars with its twigs.

Strong’s concordance:


From H6751; shade, whether literally or figuratively: - defense, shade (-ow).

So what is causing the shade? A vine. By the way, this is figurative.

Here is the same word used in conjunction with shame:

Psa 44:15 My reproach is always before me, And the shame of my face has covered (H3680) me,

Psa 69:7
Because I have borne reproach for Your sake; Shame has covered (H3680) my face.

The fact that shame was on his face does not mean his face was covered with darkness. His face might have been disfigured by a shameful look, but his face was still seen.

Another emotion -

Psa 55:5 Fear and trembling have come upon me, And shuddering covers (H3860) me.

Strong’s concordance:


From H6426; affright: - fearfulness, horror, trembling.

He was covered with fearfulness. It does not mean that you could not see him. The word ‘kâsâh’ has to be taken in context of what the verse is saying. To say that the word in and of itself indicates darkness is totally false.

Another emotion:

Pro 10:18 He who hides (H3680) hatred has lying lips, And he who sends out a slander is a fool.

He who conceals hatred has lying lips. This does not mean that the person became physically darkened and you could not see them. The concealment of hatred was taking place inside of him which is already covered with clothing.

Speaking of clothing, there are other Scriptures that use 3680 with clothing. We also know that although one is covered in clothing you can still see their face. Also, the clothing does not causatively make the person dark nor conceal them where you cannot see them. It conceals their hidden parts but it does not conceal the person themselves. CONTEXT

Psa 104:2 Covering (H5844) Yourself with light as with a garment, Stretching out the heavens like a curtain,

Strong’s concordance:


A primitive root; to wrap, that is, cover, veil, clothe or roll: - array, self, be clad, (put a) cover (-ing, self), fill, put on, X surely, turn aside.

This is what Yahuah has covered Himself with – although this word for covering is not 3680 it still shows us that Yahuah has covered Himself with light, as with a garment. We also know that there are different words that can be used to suggest covering.

After figuring out that one cannot just apply ‘darkness’ as what the moon is plumped up or filled with, it has to be taken in context.

Again, those that claim that the full moon is a new moon would have to agree that the ‘chodesh’ (rebuilding) is based on building darkness as we know after the full moon the light starts to decrease. This invariably means the darkness is increasing, meaning the rebuilding process is not based on the rebuilding of light but the rebuilding of darkness.

I will say this that both the historical writings of Philo and Josephus confirm that the full moon is in the middle of the month. We also know that the book of Hanok confirms that the full moon takes place in the middle of the month.

Return to “Calendar Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest