Post from EliYah on 11/02/07- unedited

[yahuahreigns]

EliYah

Posts: 1019
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posted 11-02-2007 03:30 PM
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Shalom all,

I would agree with Missy that there has been some confusion as to what a person is agreeing to when they register a name on this forum. There has also been an unwritten rule that posts which attempt to draw people away from 7th day Sabbath observance is also inappropriate for this forum.

I have addressed these issues by clarifying the meaning of one of the guidelines.

Previously, the guidelines stated:

Do you believe that "ALL scripture" (including the Torah/Law in Genesis-Malachi) is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness" (2Tim 3:16)?

NOTE: With this comes the belief that we should keep the law of Yahweh given through Moshe.


I have changed this last note to:

NOTE: With this comes the belief that we should keep the law of Yahweh. This includes keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day of the week (commonly called "saturday"), observing Yahweh's feast days, and keeping His clean/unclean food commands.

Hopefully, this will make the guidelines more clear and alleviate any confusion.

It is noteworthy that per the words in the guidelines clarification, "Lunar Sabbatarians" will not be permitted to participate in the forum.

The favor of our Master Yahushua be with you all,

EliYah

[This message has been edited by EliYah (edited 11-02-2007).]

[kathybyers2000]

His house, his rules, his way or the highway no problem. Life carries on just fine. A sure sign from YHWH to move on - eh?

Thanks for sharing

Kathy

[BrotherArnold]

NOTE: With this comes the belief that we should keep the law of Yahweh given through Moshe.


Some believe the Law of Moses teaches the count to Pentecost begins after the 15th Sabbath and others a sabbath that floats through the days of Unleavened Bread, which one of these are not welcome to the form?

Many other opinions as to what the law of Moses teaches including how the Sabbath is kept, by the Moon or a mathmetal count?

You would think ALL these things could be discused. Truth has no fear of open debate.

I don't find it strange that if they tried to keep the true Name from us, they will try to keep the true Sabbath from us also, but no man is able and as the sister says, it his/man's form.

Brother Arnold

[Watchman555]

Shalom EliYah~

I can understand you changing your requirements around so they are more understandable.

Your rules say:

Do you believe that we should return and use the original names for the Father and the Messiah instead of substitutes or man made alterations such as Jesus, Adonai, the LORD, HaShem, GOD, etc.?

NOTE: The requirements are here, in part, to prevent rehashing the same issues over and over and over..........

Does this exclude those who believe in the original Names but believe we should not speak them out loud? Because our daughter had posted on the Youth Forum and someone responded to her post about the Names and had an e-mail conversation with a certain person in which they sent her a study which would try to prove that we should not speak these Names.

Concerning the lunar reckoning of the 7th day. I personally find this interesting how you have handled this belief. You have had "True Sabbath Forum" for approximately four years and you have kept it behind locked doors as if to keep some unsuspecting sheep away from this "False doctrine"?

I, myself, do not believe things should be done behind closed doors. I believe what the Scripture says that things should be done in the light for all to see. Since the majority of the people that visit this site have not had to opportunity to view other understandings and I might add some very convincing, if not conclusive, Scriptural evidence, and historical evidence, that this doctrine is truth.

As if you have hidden it for fear of others becoming infected. We ourselves have been studying this for about six months now and have found that there is much more Scriptural proof for the lunar reckoning than for the 7th-day continual cycle. At this point, we keep the 7th-day continual cycle; but there is a great possibility that we will be changing over in the future. But for now, I guess we're released according to your rules to continue to post.

I have heard you speak of a study against the lunar reckoning and have yet to see it. Now I know this is your site and as you claim, this is NOT an assembly. But if you say you keep the Scriptures and the Laws per your rules, would you not run this forum like an assembly? Because the people that keep lunar reckoning and although, in the past barred from speaking about it, are now going to be expelled or disfellowshipped from the midst of this forum. According to Scripture to disfellowship someone, and I'm sure this is going to go for the chat room and your Feast site as well, so this would be considered a disfellowship, correct? And if it is, then it should be handled according to Scripture. (See. Deut. 19:15)

Ya'aqob 2:10:
For whoever shall guard all the Torah, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

If the lunar reckoning is wrong then if they believe they are guarding Torah and stumble in this one point, they are guilty of all. Now if you stumble in one point of the Torah, you are also guilty of all. Do you stumble in one point? If you do ? ? ?

Matt. 5:19:
"Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.

This verse here clearly indicates that there will be those who break commands and teach men also that will enter in to the reign of the heavens. Therefore indicating that if the lunar reckoning is false or the 7th-day continual is false - they still have the opportunity to enter into the reign of the heavens. Even though they will be called "The least". This is the compassion of Yahuah for those who can be led astray by false doctrines. You yourself have drawn a line in the sand and I do not think you have properly addressed this issue for everyone to see. Because I for one would like to see the proof that the 7th-day continual cycle is truth and that the 7th-day which is called Saturn's-day was never switched from the first day of the week to the 7th-day of the week and proof that the same 7-day cycle that we see today in this culture is the same from Creation.

Truly, if the Roman Calendar that is on the wall lies about when the day starts (midnight), when the month starts (when they say), when the year starts (dead of winter), should we not question the origin of this 7th day?

One point I would like to make - Even those who choose to keep the lunar reckoning still end up keeping the same Feasts at the same time and keep the laws of Yahuah, and believe in His only begotten Son, who died for our sins. This is not a doctrine that leads people away from the belief in Messiah; which should be considered.

~Greg

[kathybyers2000]

Can anybody properly define what a cult is? Perhaps we could all pull our dictionaries and compare definitions.

Just a thought.

Shalom,

kathy

[BrotherArnold]

I have always understood a cult as a group of worshipers who are told by one man or a group of men what to believe and what not to believe and they tell them not to receive literature or listen to anyone but them or their origination. They do not teach them to think or study for themselves.

Sunday teaching preachers do not want his followers to be exposed to Saturday teachings because they can not scripturally defend against it and the same is true with Saturday teachers don’t want their followers exposed to the Creation Sabbath/Lunar Sabbaths because they can not scripturally defend against it and they don’t want to change. They hold the key of knowledge and will not enter in and hinder those that would.

Saturday keepers will let any of their members hear a debate as to Sunday verses Saturday because they can defend against it but not Lunar Sabbaths. i.e. Sunday keepers run from Saturday keepers and Saturday keepers run from Lunar Sabbath keepers. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, title teachers run fron J name People and J name people run from YHWH Name people. That is the way it works,

Truth has no fear of open debate.

I admire what Watchman wrote.

Brother Arnold

[BrotherArnold]

One of the rules for Eliyah's form is that you must believe Torah. I believe Torah teaches Lunar Sabbaths but how can I say I believe Torah and go against what Torat teaches?

Some believe Torah teaches to count to Pentecost from morow after the 15th Sabbath and others believe the sabbath that floats throught the days of Unleaven Bread, which one believes Torah???

Do we have to believe Torah the way we are told by man, or as our own concious dictates? Why can't we reason together?

When Jehovah Witnesses reject our litature, they are only hurting themselves. In the multitude of council, ther is safety.


Brother Arnold

[BrotherArnold]

Ps. Eliyah wrote,

"There has also been an unwritten rule that posts which attempt to draw people away from 7th day Sabbath observance is also inappropriate for this forum."



Response, Lunar Sabbath does not draw people away from 7th day Sabbath observance, it clarifies it and challenges the traditional Sabbath.

People are allowed to discuss important issues concerning the other Feasts days as to "WHEN” they start etc, WHY NOT THE WEEKLY FEAST also????

[BrotherArnold]

Shalom Brother Greg,

If Eliyah bans all Lunar Sabbath believers from the form before he posts his response to Lunar Sabbaths, how can he put his response to a true test?

Brother Arnold

[kathybyers2000]

I have known this since I was removed months back for not believing as Eliyah deems HIS members MUST believe. He has a few very choice "members" who know HIS laws and stipulations and any time there is a disagreement between a believer and what Elilyah expects from them, they are reported and removed without warning.

So, if you are a lunar sabbatarian believer and can no longer post on HIS board, it is because what you have been shown as truth through the Word is different than what Eliyah has been shown.

That forum could get so annoying at times, especially with one of the members there who always carrys a "holier than thou" atttitude and likes to use this smiley --> ALL THE TIME! There is no concern or regard for other believers, but only for self in so many there. There are many there trapped in the elevator of their minds and not able to perceive beyond their own understanding the complexity of this glorious universe.

I pray for the individuals within HIS group who raise him up so and put others down so, that they may be freed from that pharisaical nature of moving whom they deem to be the greatest spiritual head to the front row - what of the beggars who come in searching and are placed in the back and then quickly thrown out for their unwillingness to conform to the way of Eliyah. And I pray for Eliyah to be able to be removed from self and see from the outside, looking in, what he is operating now.

So sorry to hear that Eliyah's grip has become tighter - but please know that you are not alone and should not take his shutting you out personally. This is YHWHs battle and we all know that YHWH will win in each and every one of us.

HalleluYah!

Kathy

[Watchman555]

Shalom Everybody~

EliYah has given me the opportunity to call him on the phone to discuss this issue; which I am planning on doing.

As you all know, EliYah is supposed to be putting together a study to refute the lunar reckoning. I would like to compile some questions that need to be answered in his study.

I would like to ask all of you if there are any questions that you would like to see him answer. I was thinking about keeping within the Scripture boundaries and not 'historical'.

We have already come up with about 15 or so questions of our own and would like to get everyone else's input in case we have forgotten anything.

~Greg

[eriqbenel]

Shalom Everybody~

EliYah has given me the opportunity to call him on the phone to discuss this issue; which I am planning on doing.

As you all know, EliYah is supposed to be putting together a study to refute the lunar reckoning. I would like to compile some questions that need to be answered in his study.

I would like to ask all of you if there are any questions that you would like to see him answer. I was thinking about keeping within the Scripture boundaries and not 'historical'.

We have already come up with about 15 or so questions of our own and would like to get everyone else's input in case we have forgotten anything.

~Greg

Shalom,

I am actually looking forward to his "study". Inadvertantly, his treatise will cause people to look into it, which will re-open the door for discussion.

However, since Tom has systematically run all of us off the forum who will "question" his findings, who will answer him? I think that is the idea, for him to post his study, people will read and believe, case closed. No discussion.

I hope there will be a way to invite those who want to discuss it here.

[BrotherArnold]

Shalom Brother Greg,

It would surprise me if he lets it be discussed on the form. It would be like a Sunday preacher allowing Saturday to be discussed, but some would I guess.

I think it would be good if you would post your questions and we could see if we can add to it. I have a lot of questions but don’t know if I came word them very well.


The Scripture conclusively proves that our Saviour and his disciples kept the SAME weekly Sabbath as did Jews of his day and the Historical evidence conclusively proved the Jews of his day kept Lerner Sabbaths.

I would like to ask the question, if he kept the same weekly Sabbath as the Jews, He would have kept the SAME Pentecost because they both would have numbered the 50th day from the morrow after the SAME weekly seventh Sabbath complete but the Jews who read from the Septuagint which conclusively teaches to begin their count to Pentecost from tomorrow after the 15th Sabbath/16th and the Hebrew text teaches to begin the count on more morrow after the weekly Sabbath which we also understand as did the Greek speaking Jews to mean the morrow of the first day of unleavened bread/16th which is the morrow after the weekly Sabbath or 15th.

Brother Arnold

Ps. I believe Exodus 13:6 conclusively speaks of the 15th and calls it the SEVENTH day in the first month from year-to-year which should end the debate because this is only possible with lunar Sabbaths. check it out for yourself at http://lunarsabbath.info/_wsn/page8.html

[Watchman555]

Shalom Brother Arnold and All~

Here is our rough draft:

1) Please explain Ez:46:1 - how can the gate be opened and closed at the same time?

2) Is the "weekly" Sabbath a mo'ed?

3) Does the Scripture say that the moon is for mo'edim?

4) How does the prophecy in Lam. 2:6 apply to the Sabbath and Feasts of the Yahudim?

5) Why couldn't they wait for the Sabbath and New Moons to be over with to sell in Nehemnia?

6) Explain the offerings for daily, Sabbaths, new moons; Num. 28:4-15; why are there no provisions for new moon offerings that fall on the sabbath or sabbath offerings that fall on a new moon?

7) Psalm 81:3 - please explain. In comparison with Genesis and they are for signs. Mo'edim.

Blow the ram's horn at the time of the New Moon, At the full moon, on our festival day.

Is the full moon on the festival day and if it is how do you get to the full moon in 15 days starting with the crescent?

8 ) How can the Roman calendar LIE about when the day begins, month begins, and year begins, yet we are supposed to believe it when it uses the 7-day week?

9) How can the Roman calendar go from a lunar to a 10-day to a 8-day, to a 7-day week and be correct?

10) How can you accept that the RCC has said that the sole purpose of the Roman calendar is to determine when Easter is?

11) During Yahusha's death, burial, and resurrection was there a weekly Sabbath after the first day of Unleavened Bread? How could there have been two Sabbaths during that time period when Yahusha rose the third day from "the time those things took place" as spoken of in Matt. 16:21; Luke 24:7, 21?

12) How can you say the lunar reckoning is a new wind of doctrine when some of the oldest calendars found are lunisolar?

13) How do you understand what the Talmud states, that if one forgets when the Sabbath is - just count six and one and keep on that; it's more important to keep the 6:1 than it is to be on the right day?

14) With that kind of understanding how can we trust them to have the correct day?

15) Concerning the jubilee (7 shabuas) (7 x 7=49) jubilee=50, jubilee is not in the count of the 7s; therefore, this shows an interruption in the count of the land sabbaths. Does this show the possibility that the 7-day cycle does not have to be continual sevens?

16) “The first people to have established a continuos weekly cycle that was entirely independent of the lunar cycle were the ancient Egyptians. Possibly as a result of being sun-worshippers, which essentially freed them for the necessity of observing lunar rites, they practically ignored the moon in their civil calendar.
"The Seven Day Circle", Page 10

How does the above quote correlate to Yahuah removing the children of Yisra'el from Egypt and then having the prophet Ezekiel state several times in chapter 20:13, 16, 21, and 24 in which they were told several times about profaning the Sabbath when they were in the wilderness?

17) Please explain Amos 5:25-27 - who is Sikkuth and Kiyyun and what exactly is this astral mighty one (star god) and does it correlate to satyr-day?

18 ) Does the giving of the manna correlate with moon phases?

~Greg

[HeHoldsMyHand]

Hi all,

I'm quite new to Torah observance and so haven't really looked into Lunar Sabbaths at all (I've only just got over the shock of it not being Sunday!!). I do have one question though, and please forgive me if it seems a bit stupid or naive, but I would like to know why, if the lunar sabbath is correct, did YHVH rest on the seventh day after the start of creation, and not the seventh day after the creation of the moon, which was the fourth day?

Thank you

Lindsey