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Prophet Joel and date of True Pentecost

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chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 02 Jun 2008, 17:56

BrotherArnold wrote:If I was given the command to enter the land, that was given to me of the Almighty, and reap the harvest thereof and bringing a NEW meat offering seven Sabbaths plus 50 days from MY LABOR which I sowed in the field, I would immediately stake my claim on a plot of around, as soon as I crossed the Jordan.
And if i were given the same command WITHOUT the extra 50 days (like Lev.23:15-16 actually says), i would understand that the Almighty would mean for the command to be fulfilled AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY, which in this case would be the 2nd year.

Also, since they didn't even cross the Jordan until Abib 10, using your counting and "4 months til harvest" requirement, the wheat harvest would be at least 10 days too late.
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

cindy
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Postby cindy » 03 Jun 2008, 05:30

Shabbat Shalom All,

Wstruse,
I have seen your chronology before and you were the first person that got me interested in looking at
2030 thereabouts.
Now, after researching, I am convinced that that is the best estimate around.

Brother Arnold,
Very good point you make on the Pentecost. I think you are right-on in many ways. I still believe Waving the Sheaf is imperative because the Messiah was the fulfillment of that and it de-legitimizes the the resurrection in a way when the barley is not considered "first fruit" because it was not planted after Passover.
WAIT! Hold the presses!
The Barley WAS planted after the Passover because Yahusha died when the Lambs were slain so technically His Seed died and was planted during/after Passover and sprung up resurrected on Wave Sheaf.


Yahusha stuck around for 40 days after the resurrection. Why 40? Why not 50? What does the significance of 10 "lost" days mean or 60 "lost" days mean?

I might not be making sense here.
Yahusha fulfilled many of the Holy Days, but if the Holy Ruach fell arond Av 1 then what happened to Sivan Pentecost?
I still think there was one, but what happened? The Pentecontad calendar was used. Two Big Covenants were cut in Sivan, Noah and Abraham. Do we not think there would be a day to commemorate those and maybe the Marriage Covenant with Israel?

Does the Falling of the Holy Ruach even count as something fulfilled by Yahusha. Maybe not.
Maybe the marriage Supper of the Lamb will be the fulfillment of this event.
Opps! Wrong thread!


Chuck,
Kickme was talking about the practice of Counting the Days/Omer until Shavuot. Typically called Counting the Omer. You read parts of Psalms everyday for 50 days, usually Psalms concerning the Law. My kids would make a calendar for 50 days and glue a small omer of barley onto it. This too makes me think that the Sivan Pentecost used Barley as a firstfruit.
If we take into account the offering of Cain and Abel we can assume the Sivan Pentecost would also include the firstfruits of the herd (typically springtime is the calving season).
We aren't doing that this year because I'm too wrapped up in other study, but I think it is a good thing and the kids like it.


Cindy

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 03 Jun 2008, 06:38

chuckbaldwin wrote:
BrotherArnold wrote:If I was given the command to enter the land, that was given to me of the Almighty, and reap the harvest thereof and bringing a NEW meat offering seven Sabbaths plus 50 days from MY LABOR which I sowed in the field, I would immediately stake my claim on a plot of around, as soon as I crossed the Jordan.
And if i were given the same command WITHOUT the extra 50 days (like Lev.23:15-16 actually says), i would understand that the Almighty would mean for the command to be fulfilled AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY, which in this case would be the 2nd year.

Also, since they didn't even cross the Jordan until Abib 10, using your counting and "4 months til harvest" requirement, the wheat harvest would be at least 10 days too late.


Shalom Brother Chuck,

you wrote,

"And if i were given the same command WITHOUT the extra 50 days (like Lev.23:15-16 actually says), i would understand that the Almighty would mean for the command to be fulfilled AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY, which in this case would be the 2nd year."

RESPONSE; why would you not have first opportunity to plant in the first month?

Remember the people of Jericho have left their houses and fields and were shut up in the walls of Jericho's city, shaking for fear of the Israelites. There was nothing to hinder them from sowing the fields because Jericho was no threat to them whatsoever. Remember also they were commanded to sow the first year when they entered the land, for six years and then let it rest the seventh, they would not have waited to the second year to start sowing because springtime is the time to sow scriptural wheat. Winter wheat cannot be found in Scripture.

You wrote,

“Also, since they didn't even cross the Jordan until Abib 10, using your counting and "4 months til harvest" requirement, the wheat harvest would be at least 10 days too late.”

RESPONSE; I have sown spring wheat on the 10th and had a new meat offering by Pentecost and even if it was not quite ready it is scriptural that you can dry it by the fire according to Leviticus 2:14.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
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BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 03 Jun 2008, 07:19

Brother Arnold,
Very good point you make on the Pentecost. I think you are right-on in many ways. I still believe Waving the Sheaf is imperative because the Messiah was the fulfillment of that and it de-legitimizes the the resurrection in a way when the barley is not considered "first fruit" because it was not planted after Passover.
WAIT! Hold the presses!
The Barley WAS planted after the Passover because Yahusha died when the Lambs were slain so technically His Seed died and was planted during/after Passover and sprung up resurrected on Wave Sheaf.

RESPONSE; that is also in very good point and I might point out that there is a spring barley also. It is planted in the springtime and harvested in the summer, same as if spring wheat is planted in the springtime and harvested in the summer. He would have been the firstfruits of ALL that sleep. I just what to know the truth whatever it may be

Brother Arnold
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BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 03 Jun 2008, 07:21

Shalom All,

The Mishnah, and the Jewish Rabbi's own definition of NEW GRAIN, proves the spring wheat is the true Pentecost wheat harvest.
It Is the Wheat that is harvested in the summertime, 50 days AFTER the traditional Pentecost. Read the following carefully.

The Rabbi's believe that the spring wheat GRAIN that is sown in the springtime and harvested four months later in the summer is NEW/Chodosh GRAIN because it took root after the New Year began around Passover. They seem to forget that the Almighty specifically calls for a NEW GRAIN offering in Leviticus 23:16, and all translations agree that Pentecost wheat offering is to be presented from the NEW/Chodosh GRAIN. Here are a few translations,

The Complete Jewish Bible
23:16
until the day after the seventh week; you are to count fifty days; and then you are to present a NEW GRAIN offering to ADONAI.

The Revised Standard Version
23:16
you shall present a cereal offering of NEW GRAIN to the LORD.


Hebrew Names Version of World English Bible
23:16
even to the next day after the seventh Shabbat shall you number fifty days; and you shall offer a NEW MEAL-offering to the LORD.

New Century Version 23:16
you will bring a NEW GRAIN offering to the Lord.

The Message
23:16
Then present a NEW GRAIN-Offering to God.

The NAS Strong's Version
23:16
then you shall present a NEW GRAIN offering to the LORD.

The American Standard Version
23:16
even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a NEW MEAL-offering unto Jehovah


GOD'S WORD 23:16
Then bring a NEW GRAIN offering to the LORD.

The New Revised Standard Version
23:16
then you shall present an offering of NEW GRAIN to the Lord

New International Version
23:16
and then present an offering of NEW GRAIN to the Lord.

The Holman Christian Standard Bible
23:16
and then present an offering of NEW GRAIN to the Lord.

The King James Version (Authorized)
23:16
Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a NEW MEAT offering unto the LORD.

The New Living Translation
23:16
Keep counting until the day after the seventh Sabbath, fifty days later, and bring an offering of NEW GRAIN to the LORD.

Webster's Bible Translation 23:16
Even to the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a NEW MEAT-offering to the LORD.

New International Reader's Version
23:16
On that day bring me an offering of your FIRST GRAIN.

Today's New International Version 23:16
and then present an offering of NEW GRAIN to the Lord.

The Bible in Basic English
23:16
then you are to give a NEW MEAL offering to the Lord.

World English Bible 23:16
even to the next day after the seventh Sabbath shall you number fifty days; and you shall offer a NEW MEAL-offering to Yahweh.

We see from the above translations that NEW grain is the grain that is to be offered at Pentecost but the Jewish tradition teaches that this new grain is to be uneaten until the next year. The traditional Pentecost offering that they bring is from OLD GRAIN according to their own definition. I wonder if it ever crossed their blinded minds, to bring a first fruit offering from this NEW GRAIN/spring wheat harvest, as Aaron did?
The new grain offering is to be from the wheat harvest and offered at Pentecost and is called a chag in Hebrew and Aaron declared a Chag 50 days AFTER the seventh Sabbath, (Exodus 32:5) on the very same day that the law was given to Moses/Moshe which was at the end of the 40 days and 40 nights (Deuteronomy 9:11 And Exodus 31:18) and this is no coincidence. This would be the time of the summer wheat harvest that Aaron made this proclamation and the grapes are also ripe at this time, which is in harmony with Joel's prophecy that was fulfilled in the book of Acts, concerning the floors being full of wheat and the winepresses full of wine on the Pentecost. It is AGRICULTURALLY IMPOSSIBLE to have wine in the winepresses in the third month. Why can't these Orthodox Jews SEE that the Almighty requires a NEW GRAIN offering from the wheat??? Yet they sit on it until the NEXT YEAR on account of their tradition, does that make sense?
Here's what they say at http://www.tzemachdovid.org/thepractica ... emor.shtml, “The Mishnah in Menachos (70a) after specifying that this injunction applies to the Chamishas Minai Dagan, five species of grain, namely, wheat, barley, spelt, oats, and rye, explains that the prohibition is to eat any of these grains (or their derivatives) which had grown, or, more literally, took root, during the past year, since the Korban Omer was brought on the previous Pesach, until the current Korban Omer is brought. Any such grain which begins to take root after Pesach is called "Chodosh," meaning "new" by this Mishnah, and it is forbidden to eat Chodosh or products made from Chodosh until the Korban Omer is brought on the next Pesach. The Rambam (Hilchos Ma'achalos Asuros 10:4) and the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah 293:3) rule accordingly.” See http://www.tzemachdovid.org/thepractica ... emor.shtml in the same article they also say that,

“It should be noted that there is a dispute as to how long it takes for these grains to take root after they're planted. The Shach (Ibid. Sif Katan 2) quotes from the Terumas HaDeshen (Sheilos U'Teshuvos Terumas HaDeshen Siman 191) that it takes three days, based on an opinion quoted in the Gemara in Pesachim (55a), but Rabbi Akiva Eiger (Chidushei Rabbi Akiva Eiger Ibid. s.v. Hinu), among others, questions this, saying that opinion is not the accepted one, and that it rather takes two weeks. The Shach himself, in his Nekudos HaKessef (Ibid. s.v. K'D'Muchach) raises this question, noting that the Gemara in Yevamos (83a) seems to rule clearly that it takes two weeks. The Vilna Gaon (Biur HaGra Ibid. Sof Sif Katan 2) brings this up as well and tries to reconcile the problem, but leaves the matter in doubt. The Aruch HaShulchan (Ibid. Sifim 7-9) summarizes the different positions, but concludes that the view of the Terumas HaDeshen (Ibid.) that it takes three days is correct when discussing, as we are, plants, as opposed to trees. This dispute would obviously have great bearing on any grains planted in the springtime just before Pesach in determining whether or not they'd be labeled as Chodosh.

From the above we see the definition of NEW/ Chodosh grain and the spring wheat fall's under this definition. And the spring wheat cannot be eaten until the next year because of their misunderstanding of the wave sheaf and its relation to the true Pentecost.

From another web site at http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-yoshon-old_new.htm we read,

“Yoshon and Chodosh
Something Old Something New
Avrom Pollak, Star-K President

The story is told about how in the mid 1970's the proprietor of a kosher bakery in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood was asked if his products were Yoshon. Not realizing that this Hebrew word, which literally means 'old', actually refers to grain which had been planted before Passover, proudly, albeit naively, answered, " I can assure you that everything in my bakery is 100 percent fresh." Today, as we approach the millennium yoshon and chodosh have graduated and become household words which have rightfully taken their place among the more popular terms such as Glatt Kosher, Cholov Yisroel, and Pas Yisroel.

NOTICE that any grain planted before Passover which would include the traditional Pentecost wheat, is considered OLD grain and therefore cannot be the TRUE Pentecost wheat because the scripture demands that the wave loaves were to be from NEW grain. The article also says,
…. Among the 613 biblical commandments we find an admonition not to eat grain from the new harvest until the second day of Passover, the time that the barley sacrifice called the Omer was brought in the Temple. The prohibited grain is called chodosh, which literally means new. Although, the Omer was brought from barley, as it is the first of grain crops to ripen, the restriction against eating new grain applies to five grain types which include wheat, barley, oats, rye and spelt. Grain that was planted during or after Passover is chodosh and is not permitted until the following Passover. Any grain that took root before the second day of Passover becomes Yoshon after the second day of Passover. The precise definition of what constitutes taking root and the actual amount of time required between the planting and the second day of Passover is beyond the scope of this article. The observance of chodosh proscribes one from eating any product which contains ingredients derived from one of the five types of grain. Other crops such as corn, buckwheat, rice and millet are not really considered grain, and one need not be concerned about which years harvest is being used……

NOTICE the Jewish Rabbis acknowledge spring wheat, barley, oats, rye and spelt, as grains that can be planted during or after Passover and harvested in the summer which will make it the NEW GRAIN for that year. The article goes on to say,

“Spring wheat which contains significantly higher amounts of gluten than does winter wheat and is generally planted in the spring and first harvested in late summer. Since this type of wheat was not in the ground before Passover it is chodosh (NEW) until Passover of the following year. Thus for all practical purposes the need to be concerned with chodosh begins in late summer after the spring wheat has been harvested and lasts until the second day of Passover when chodosh automatically converts to Yoshon (OLD) status. To keep things in a positive perspective, one can accurately say that for approximately one half the year everyone is in full compliance with the chodosh restriction. http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-yoshon-old_new.htm

To me something is terribly wrong with waiting until the grain becomes OLD before offering it to the Almighty when he specifically says to bring a new meat/grain offering.
Brother Arnold http://lunarsabbath.info/_wsn/page4.html
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



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chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 03 Jun 2008, 09:07

cindy wrote:Chuck,
Kickme was talking about the practice of Counting the Days/Omer until Shavuot.
Hi Cindy,

You gave me more info than what i was asking about. Considering only the above statement, HOW do you count ONE OMER? The Hebrew word for "Days" ("YOMIM") is NOT the same as the word "OMER".

My understanding is that the (SINGLE) "OMER" was WAVED, and the 50 DAYS were COUNTED. Maybe it's just some Jewish tradition or terminology i'm not getting.
Chuck Baldwin

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BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 03 Jun 2008, 17:45

I think I understand how the Rabbi's and Mishnah concluded that the fruit of anything planted and took root before Passover is not considered new grain and the fruit from any grain that is planted around Passover is considered new grain. A new grain offering has to be in the same year/revolution that the seeds were planted.

We notice that in Genesis when it says seed time and harvest, summer and winter, heat and cold, day and night, are all in the same revolution. If the revolution of a year is considered beginning in the springtime, and the seeds are sown and the harvest harvested in the same revolution/year, before the next springtime/Passover, the seed time and harvest are in the same revolution/year BUT if the years revolution is considered as beginning in the springtime and seeds are sown in the third quarter/fall of that year and grows through the winter, and are harvested in the next year/revolution/springtime around Passover, the fruit from those seeds are not considered new grain of that year/revolution because the seed time and harvest are not in the same revolution.

The same is true with a new year, new month or new day. Example, if the new moon starts to rebuild in the middle of a day then that day is not the new moon day or first day of the month because it began in the old month/moon and therefore it is not a chodosh/new moon day of that new month but is the last day of the old month because it started in the old month, same as when the seed time and harvest splits a year/revolution the grain is not considered new/chodosh.

The same is true with a year, if a new moon happens a few days before the year/revolution ends at the vernal equinox, that new moon is not considered the FIRST new moon of the revolution/year same as the fruit of the harvest that is sown in the old year cannot be considered FIRST fruit of the new year, it has to be fruit from seed that is sown in the same year. You might ask what does all this mean? If the Rabbis are Right in Their Definition of new grain and the first month of the year, it proves that the new meat/grain offering of the wheat has to be from the summer wheat harvest which is 50 days after the seventh Sabbath of Leviticus 23:16.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

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chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 03 Jun 2008, 19:58

BrotherArnold wrote:
chuckbaldwin wrote:Also, since they didn't even cross the Jordan until Abib 10, using your counting and "4 months til harvest" requirement, the wheat harvest would be at least 10 days too late.
Chuck, you wrote,
"And if i were given the same command WITHOUT the extra 50 days ..., i would understand that the Almighty would mean for the command to be fulfilled AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY, which in this case would be the 2nd year."

RESPONSE; why would you not have first opportunity to plant in the first month?
Hi Arnold,

I apologize if i wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about the opportunity to plant (which i have already disagreed with). In this case, as my above quote shows, i was talking about the opportunity to START HARVESTING THAT CROP IN TIME FOR A NEW MEAL OFFERING AT THE END OF THE 4TH MONTH IN THAT SAME YEAR.

First, let me emphasize that i'm using YOUR requirement (which i disagree with), supposedly based on Jn.4:35 "yet 4 months and then comes the harvest".
Here's the timeline, which i sincerely hope you won't pretend not to understand:

1. Abib 1 - Planting MUST be done by this date in order to have a New Meal Offering by the end of the 4th month.

2. Abib 10 - The date the Israelites crossed the Jordan and "came into the land", and thus the FIRST POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITY TO PLANT ANYTHING IN THE LAND.

[3 months + 18-19 days intervene]

3. 4/28 or 4/29 - YOUR "Pentecost" - NO New Meal Offering ready, because "4 months" from Abib 10 haven't completed yet.

4. 5/10 - First Opportunity for a New Meal Offering in the 1st year, but 10 days too late for YOUR "Pentecost".

THEREFORE (as i said before), the FIRST OPPORTUNITY to offer a New Meal Offering on either 3/5-12 (MY Pentecost) OR 4/28-29 (YOUR Pentecost) would NOT have been until the 2nd year in the land. QED.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

cindy
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Postby cindy » 04 Jun 2008, 05:55

Hello All,

I can see the points made by both Arnold and Chuck.
I ran across this when doing a search on sowing.

Lev 26:5
And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

Here sowing time is in the early winter like Oct-Dec even Jan (according to the Gezer calendar-this was 925 BCE and determined to be used for tax purposes).

Now the commandment for firstfruits is to be the best of the crop and the fruit of our labor. I don't believe after thinking about it that the timing of sowing really matters. Plus there is no commandment I can find either. YHWH knew that in Nisan/Abib 16 that nothing would be ready to make bread with so he commanded a Wave Offering. You could still eat what was stored in the grainery after that and then eat the new grain harvested in the field once it was ready in the coming months.

Lev 26:10
And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.



When looking at the commandment I see no indication again that the Wave Offering had to barley, as well.
To me it seems that throughout the ages the firstfruit commandments have taken on a life of their own and been contorted to be more difficult than they need be. Which in reality is not difficult at all.

How can all this "before Passover or After Passover" regulation be applied to trees and other crops for firstfruits?
A number of ground crops, too, do not yield until the second year in the ground? Shall we not be thankful or offer as firstfruits because it was not planted in the same year as harvest? Just a question to illustrate that the point is being missed.

Yahusha fulfilled this in His bodily resurrection as the True Bread of Life. The Wave Offering is still a commandment, but
let us not get caught up in the legalistic aspects like sowing time that are not in scripture.

Cindy

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Postby BrotherArnold » 04 Jun 2008, 11:14

The harvest takes place in the fourth month/moon and when He said, say not ye that they are four moons and then cometh the harvest, He is speaking of a harvest that comes “IN” the fourth moon/month, He Is Not Telling Them in That It that 118 days for summer wheat to mature for harvest. It does not take a full four months/118 days for spring wheat to mature. The harvest takes place “IN” the fourth moon.

There are approximately 118 days in 4 scriptural months and spring wheat will mature in about 90 to 100 days which leaves 18 to 28 days and if you were to subtract 10 of those days, it would still leave you 8 to 18 days to harvest enough wheat to make two wave loaves and if the wheat was still not dry enough, you still have Scripture that allows you to dry it by the fire. I really do not see your point and I am not pretending. It only took me about an hour or two to gather some wheat, grind it, and have it ready to make two wave loaves and bring it out of my house and wave it on the day of Pentecost. I planted in the first moon and harvested in the fourth moon just like He said, a harvest did come in the fourth moon.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

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cindy
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Postby cindy » 04 Jun 2008, 12:40

Yes, I don't doubt you at all.

What I am saying is that there is no commandment that sowing before Passover makes the firstfruit null and void in Sivan.
I should have put "Sivan" in my comments.

But, you completely ignore the Sivan Pentecost which has been validated by the DSS. We can quibble over what can be offered during what millennium in Sivan, but the fact remains that the pentecontad calendar was used by the DSS writers and I can say is instrumental in intercalating the lunar and solar calendars. (another thread, please
:shock: )

Not to mention the important covenants in Sivan should be remembered.

Brother Arnold you have made your point clear on the spring wheat harvest in late 4th month.
But, there was a Pentecost in Sivan and in the month of Elul as well.

Cindy

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 04 Jun 2008, 16:13

BrotherArnold wrote:There are approximately 118 days in 4 scriptural months and spring wheat will mature in about 90 to 100 days which leaves 18 to 28 days and if you were to subtract 10 of those days, it would still leave you 8 to 18 days to harvest ...
Hi Arnold,

I see what you're saying now. I thought you meant that it took 4 months from planting to harvest. So, if your figures are correct, then it would be possible to plant after 1/10 and harvest by 4/28. Notice i said POSSIBLE, not that they actually did it.

And of course, the expression "yet 4 months" (NOT "IN the 4th month") can be understood several ways, which i won't list in detail; only to say that it could mean something beside your interpretation.
Cindy wrote:Lev 26:5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time...
Hi Cindy,

I was going to make a point about the above Scripture you quoted, but then i realized, since it didn't state WHAT was being "threshed" or WHAT was being "sown", i couldn't pin the threshing or sowing to a particular crop, so i withdraw the point that i was about to make. :oops:
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

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Postby BrotherArnold » 06 Jun 2008, 11:06

cindy wrote:Yes, I don't doubt you at all.

What I am saying is that there is no commandment that sowing before Passover makes the firstfruit null and void in Sivan.
I should have put "Sivan" in my comments.

RESPONSE; I understand what you are saying but it seems that the Rabbi's understood that first fruits of a particular year is from seed that is planted in that same year, from spring to sprung.

But, you completely ignore the Sivan Pentecost which has been validated by the DSS. We can quibble over what can be offered during what millennium in Sivan, but the fact remains that the pentecontad calendar was used by the DSS writers and I can say is instrumental in intercalating the lunar and solar calendars. (another thread, please
:shock: )

RESPONSE; the Dead Sea Scrolls are too distorted to put too much confidence in but the Scripture clearly calls the second 50/Pentecost a chag in Exodus 32:5 when the grapes are ripe, and the covenant law was actually given to Moses. It is the Scriptures that seems to ignore the Sivan Pentecost.


Not to mention the important covenants in Sivan should be remembered.

RESPONSE; the covenant was discussed in the third month but it was not sign sealed and delivered until the end of the fourth month when the summer wheat and grapes are ripe. I look at it like a proposal in the third month and a marriage contract in the fourth. In essence the first Pentecost/50 was a proposal and the second Pentecost/50 was a marriage and the contract was written by the Almighty Himself and is called a chag. Of course later they received a bill of divorce.
Brother Arnold
Last edited by BrotherArnold on 06 Jun 2008, 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BrotherArnold » 06 Jun 2008, 11:06

Shalom Sister Cindy,

I believe the Scripture teaches in Exodus 19:1 through three, that they did not even get to the mount until the 15th or 16 day of the third month and I will explain why later.

Brother Arnold
Last edited by BrotherArnold on 06 Jun 2008, 17:48, edited 1 time in total.
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



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chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 06 Jun 2008, 12:50

BrotherArnold wrote:I messed up again!
Wow Arnold! :shock: That's a real shocker. But if you had just deleted the post instead of confessing, then we'd never have known. :lol: But now it's too late, because i think you can only delete a post if there aren't any posts after it. Sorry 'bout that. :cry:
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.


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