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Prophet Joel and date of True Pentecost

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cindy
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Prophet Joel and date of True Pentecost

Postby cindy » 29 Apr 2008, 23:11

Good Day All,

I was reading Acts chapter 2 to see if there was anything striking that would indicate the season this event happened.

I found, of course, the verse with "new wine" in it which would indicate the season being late summer (not June anyway), but what was striking is the verses from Joel ...

15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.' [fn2]

This has not happened yet. He is talking about the Day of YHWH. Why is he quoting Joel when there is 2000 more years to go?

Does anyone think, like myself, that he is talking to us and that knowing the season of the True Pentecost will be vital in keeping us from the destruction (as well as calling on HIS NAME)?

Cindy

chuckbaldwin
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Location: East Ridge, TN

Re: Prophet Joel and date of True Pentecost

Postby chuckbaldwin » 04 May 2008, 20:04

cindy wrote:I was reading Acts chapter 2 to see if there was anything striking that would indicate the season this event happened.

I found, of course, the verse with "new wine" in it which would indicate the season being late summer (not June anyway),
Hi Cindy,

The verses in Acts 2 are as follows:

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.

Letting Scripture (v15) interpret Scripture (v13), it can be seen that "full of new wine" is merely a euphemism for "drunk". A person can be drunk any time of year, like at a "new year's eve" party.

If i said "you're nuts", would you assume that we were in nut harvesting season?
If i said "you're full of prunes", would you assume it was prune season?
If i said "you have bats in your belfry", would you assume it was near sunset when the bats come out?
If you answered "yes" to any of the above, then the related quote is probably true. :lol:

Using the "new wine" logic to determine the season would also demand that new wine couldn't exist prior to 9am on any given day.
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 05 May 2008, 15:59

Hello Chuck,

Since I made this post on Acts 2 much has transpired.

Where to begin?

This week Worldnetdaily came out with a front page article

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=63076

I verified all the dates as accurate with NASA.

While this is very outstanding I still wondered about the speech Peter made in Acts 2 so I looked up all the solar and lunar eclipses from 2021 to 2030 and this is what I found

Solar eclipse information for years 2021-2030

Year 2028 there will be a partial solar eclipse on

Gregorian: July 22, 2028
Julian: July 9, 2028 (post ¹)
Jewish: Tammuz 28, 5788

July 22, 2028 is a NEW MOON


Year 2029 there will be partial solar eclipses on

Gregorian: June 12, 2029
Julian: May 30, 2029 (post ¹)
Jewish: Sivan 29, 5789
כ״ט בסיון ה׳תשפ״ט

June 12, 2029 is a NEW MOON

Gregorian: July 11, 2029
Julian: June 28, 2029 (post ¹)
Jewish: Tammuz 28, 5789
כ״ח בתמוז ה׳תשפ״ט

July 11, 2029 is a NEW MOON


Gregorian: December 5, 2029
Julian: November 22, 2029 (post ¹)
Jewish: Kislev 28, 5790
כ״ח בכסלו ה׳תשצ״

December 5, 2029 is also a NEW MOON

ARE WE SEEING A PATTERN HERE?!


Lunar eclipses 2021-2030

There will be a total lunar eclipse on
Gregorian: June 26, 2029
Julian: June 13, 2029 (post ¹)
Jewish: Tammuz 13, 5789
י״ג בתמוז ה׳תשפ״ט

Of course this is the FULL MOON BEFORE AV 1


This is Pentecost Day in 2029
(for those who believe the chronology of Exodus 32 is 40+ days after Sivan 15---- 3000 perished in Exodus and 3000 saved in Acts 2)

Gregorian: July 13, 2029
Julian: June 30, 2029 (post ¹)
Jewish: Av 1, 5789

SDN:
2462331.5 ²
Weekday:
Friday

Actually July 12 is the New Moon Day (see NASA chart for times)


So the "Sun will be darkened"? on June 12, 2029 PARTIAL SOLAR ECLIPSE
and the "Moon will turn to blood"? on June 26, 2029 TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE

Pentecost 2029 will be on July 13 - Av 1

These are the signs in the heavens.

chuckbaldwin
Posts: 334
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Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 06 May 2008, 04:35

Hi Cindy,

I'm not sure what all your dates & figures were meant to convey. I do know that ALL solar eclipses are on NEW MOONS, because the conjunction is the event that signals the New Moon day.

As for my previous post, it wasn't intended to DISRPROVE a 4th month Pentecost; only to show that the reference to "new wine" doesn't PROVE it.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 06 May 2008, 13:38

Your right Chuck!

I just found that out!

I wondered how that would work with a New Moon.

Here I thought I had found a pattern.

See, isn't is a good thing we have each other!

More later. I've got to run the little one to school.

Thanks,
Cindy

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 09 May 2008, 08:52

Shalom Sister Cindy and Brother Chuck,

Brother Chuck says,

"full of new wine" is merely a euphemism for "drunk". A person can be drunk any time of year, like at a "new year's eve" party.”

RESPONSE; while it is true a person can be drunk any time of the year, they cannot be drunk on new wine any time of the year. The reason for this is that at the time of Pentecost, any wine that is left over from the old year is not considered new wine.

The scriptural definition for new wine is not last year's wine and that is the type wine they were being accused of being drunk on. Cindy was right in her first assessment.

It is easy to say things like new wine" is merely a euphemism for "drunk" etc. but the Scripture teaches us to prove what we say. The only scriptural definition of new wine is wine that is still in the cluster, new wine that has not been put into the new bottles yet and if it is put in last year's bottles/old bottles it will burst them, and new wine that is in the winepresses. The definition of new wine is fresh wine. Perhaps Brother Chuck can find us a Scripture showing the kind of wine they were accused of being drunk on his last year's wine or prove it is merely a euphemism for "drunk". What else can anyone say if they believe a third month Pentecost? If they admitted that there was new wine, then they would have to admit a later Pentecost from the summer wheat harvest instead of the Winter wheat harvest. Peter did not deny that these people appeared strange by speaking in other languages some did not understand but others did, he just stated that they were not drunk on the new wine but explained how this was the beginning of the prophecy of Joel being full filled.

The prophecy in Joel teaches the floors will be full of wheat and the winepresses full of wine when the Holy Spirit is first poured out on the day of Pentecost WHICH IS AGRICULTURALLY IMPOSSIBLE for this to have come to pass in the third month and that is the wine that was in the winepresses on the day of Pentecost. There are many other scriptures that speaks of the corn/wheat and new wine together such as Nehemiah 13:15 where he says they saw men in Judah treading the winepresses on the Sabbath and bringing in SHEAVES, and lading asses; as also wine, GRAPES, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day:”

My point is that the Sheaves would have had to have been from the summer wheat harvest because the Winter wheat sheaves would have been gone by this time.

At any rate, we should let the Scripture interpret Scripture and I believe Acts 2 is the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel 2 and it will go all the way up to his second coming which will not be long now. I believe I can prove the Scripture teaches it will be on a Pentecost when he returns but have not put anything on paper yet. I have been discussing this second with some Jewish Rabbis and Hebrew scholars who realize that there is something to what I have been saying and they have went back and re-examined the Hebrew on this subject and if anyone is interested, I will post there comments on the subject.

I keep reminding people THAT THEY ARE TWO types of wheat harvest in the world today including Israel, Winter wheat and summer wheat and only one of them will line up with Scripture. It is scripturally impossible for Leviticus 23:16 to be understood to count 50 days after the wave sheaf.
And on top of all that, I challenge anyone to find a feast of any kind in the third month or a harvest of any kind in the third month for the traditional third month Pentecost.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 09 May 2008, 08:52

Shalom Sister Cindy and Brother Chuck,

Brother Chuck says,

"full of new wine" is merely a euphemism for "drunk". A person can be drunk any time of year, like at a "new year's eve" party.”

RESPONSE; while it is true a person can be drunk any time of the year, they cannot be drunk on new wine any time of the year. The reason for this is that at the time of Pentecost, any wine that is left over from the old year is not considered new wine.

The scriptural definition for new wine is not last year's wine and that is the type wine they were being accused of being drunk on. Cindy was right in her first assessment.

It is easy to say things like new wine" is merely a euphemism for "drunk" etc. but the Scripture teaches us to prove what we say. The only scriptural definition of new wine is wine that is still in the cluster, new wine that has not been put into the new bottles yet and if it is put in last year's bottles/old bottles it will burst them, and new wine that is in the winepresses. The definition of new wine is fresh wine. Perhaps Brother Chuck can find us a Scripture showing the kind of wine they were accused of being drunk on his last year's wine or prove it is merely a euphemism for "drunk". What else can anyone say if they believe a third month Pentecost? If they admitted that there was new wine, then they would have to admit a later Pentecost from the summer wheat harvest instead of the Winter wheat harvest. Peter did not deny that these people appeared strange by speaking in other languages some did not understand but others did, he just stated that they were not drunk on the new wine but explained how this was the beginning of the prophecy of Joel being full filled.

The prophecy in Joel teaches the floors will be full of wheat and the winepresses full of wine when the Holy Spirit is first poured out on the day of Pentecost WHICH IS AGRICULTURALLY IMPOSSIBLE for this to have come to pass in the third month and that is the wine that was in the winepresses on the day of Pentecost. There are many other scriptures that speaks of the corn/wheat and new wine together such as Nehemiah 13:15 where he says they saw men in Judah treading the winepresses on the Sabbath and bringing in SHEAVES, and lading asses; as also wine, GRAPES, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day:”

My point is that the Sheaves would have had to have been from the summer wheat harvest because the Winter wheat sheaves would have been gone by this time.

At any rate, we should let the Scripture interpret Scripture and I believe Acts 2 is the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel 2 and it will go all the way up to his second coming which will not be long now. I believe I can prove the Scripture teaches it will be on a Pentecost when he returns but have not put anything on paper yet. I have been discussing this subject with some Jewish Rabbis and Hebrew scholars who realize that there is something to what I have been saying and they have went back and re-examined the Hebrew on this subject and if anyone is interested, I will post there comments on the subject.

I keep reminding people THAT THEY ARE TWO types of wheat harvest in the world today including Israel, Winter wheat and summer wheat and only one of them will line up with Scripture. It is scripturally impossible for Leviticus 23:16 to be understood to count 50 days after the wave sheaf.
And on top of all that, I challenge anyone to find a feast of any kind in the third month or a harvest of any kind in the third month for the traditional third month Pentecost. http://lunarsabbath.info/_wsn/page4.html

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 10 May 2008, 07:21

Brother Arnold,

When I was researching wheat and it's history it was very interesting to know that there were not, of course, all these different varieties of wheat. And the heat of summer is a must in order to dry out the plant for harvesting. People could have pulled out some green wheat in mid June, but it would not be truly a harvest.

My thinking after reading alot about Shavuot and Pentecost is that they are indeed different events and after the Temple was destroyed and people could not go to the Temple three times a year that the true date of Pentecost was lost and traditions took hold around Shavuot. The Jewish rabbis have developed all kinds of traditions that on the one hand have kept the Torah alive and on the other obscured the truth. Especially the truth that affects the End Time scenario which is of great interest to all of us. Plus, now that I think of it, Pentecost was a huge event for the
"Minum" which the corrupt rabbis despised and maybe after the destruction in 70 this Holy Day was minimized out of Jewish consciousness.

At this point there is no way to historically prove a Pentecost either in Sivan or Av.
Scripturally there is more evidence for the Av dating. The Sivan date only has tradition.

I would really like to get my hands on some literature (200 BCE - 70CE) that would show a large scale movement of people to Jerusalem around late Tammuz to Av. Not for myself, but for those who would like more evidence.

Cindy

cindy
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 10 May 2008, 07:22

Yes, Brother Arnold I would be interested in what the rabbis have to say.

Cindy

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 10 May 2008, 19:44

cindy wrote:Yes, Brother Arnold I would be interested in what the rabbis have to say.
Me too, especially the meaning of the Hebrew text of Lev.23:15-16, as to whether it could possibly be understood like the "double-count" people claim.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

BrotherArnold
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Postby BrotherArnold » 11 May 2008, 12:25

chuckbaldwin wrote:
cindy wrote:Yes, Brother Arnold I would be interested in what the rabbis have to say.
Me too, especially the meaning of the Hebrew text of Lev.23:15-16, as to whether it could possibly be understood like the "double-count" people claim.



----- Original Message -----
From: Rav. David Pollina
To: 'Sholi'ack/Rabbi H. Shemu'el Dombek' ; dombek@lazerlink.com
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:09 AM
Subject: RE: Counting to Shavuot/Feast of Weeks <<<------->>> Reply


Shalom Ravs Dombek,

The only problems with Arnold's 7+50 theory are:

1. The Hebrew text absolutely excludes it - this is an Englishism being transposed into Hebrew where it does not exist.

2. Y'shua and most Jews in the 1st century CE did NOT do it this way as is conclusively shown by both the NT, and Philo/Josephus/Jubilees.

For a detailed analysis of the counting in its original LUNAR form, see the chapter in the attached "Counting the Sevens". Feel free to forward.

Blessings,

David


This particular Rabbi is a lunar Sabbath keeper.
I am trying to find where another Rabbi disagreed with his Leviticus 23:16 understanding and will post it as soon as I find it.

Brother Arnold
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

BrotherArnold
Posts: 327
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 23:22
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Postby BrotherArnold » 11 May 2008, 12:27

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave and Kim Dombek" <dombek>
To: "David Dombek" <dombek>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: Counting to Shavuot/Feast of Weeks


> Shalom everyone,
>
> I hope and pray that you had a wonderful, blessed Pesach and Feast of
> Unleavened Bread. Now that we are in time of the counting of the
> omer, heading toward Shavuot, or the Feast of Weeks, I want to throw
> out some scriptural tidbits to ponder.
>
> Most of us have always gone with the traditional 50 day count to
> Pentecost. However, I have been studying this subject recently and I
> think that the 50 day count MAY be too short. I am not advocating
> following a different counting system or anything like that. I am
> just searching for the truth, and I always want to be willing to
> change if YHWH, through His Ruach haKodesh (Holy Spirit), leads in
> another direction. As the Israelites of old who wandered in the
> wilderness, we don't want to "put our tent pegs down too deeply",
> because we know that there will come a time when YHWH will want us to
> move. Unfortunately, most of organized religion today not only have
> their tent pegs down deeply, but they also have concrete poured down
> into the holes so that they will never move!
>
> I am going to give you some of my thoughts on this subject. Again,
> keep in mind that I am still in "search mode". However, there are
> some things that need to be addressed in order to clarify the entire
> picture. Please feel free to share your thoughts and comments with
> me, and with others as well. We can open up a dialogue on this
> subject, but please keep this civil, polite, and friendly. I don't
> want to see any name calling, ridicule of others, negativity, etc.
> Let's keep the discussion upbeat and positive, so that we can all
> learn from our study of the scriptures.
>
> Here are the things I would like you to consider...
>
> (1) We know that YHWH instructed us to count the Sabbaths and number
> the days, as we read in Lev. 23: 15,16. In our understanding, we have
> always interpreted this as meaning seven full Sabbaths (weeks) and
> the one extra day, to make it a total of 50 days. However, could YHWH
> possibly want us to count 50 days AFTER the seventh Sabbath?
>
> (2) We know that Shavuot, or the Feast of Weeks, is the Firstfruits
> of the Wheat Harvest. See Ex. 34:22.
>
> (3) Wheat comes in a number of different varieties. Wheat is also
> planted at different times of the year. There is spring wheat, which
> is planted in the spring, and winter wheat, which is planted the
> previous fall. The winter wheat germinates, grows a little in the
> fall, and then goes dormant for the winter months. It resumes its
> growth in the spring when air and especially soil temperatures reach
> a certain level. I am far from being an expert in agriculture, but I
> have found out from doing a little research that wheat generally
> takes anywhere from 100 to 130 days to mature. The average tends to
> be 110 to 120 days, depending on the variety. We are not sure what
> kind of wheat was grown in Israel many years ago, nor do we know
> whether it was winter wheat or spring wheat. It seems that in modern
> day Israel, much of the wheat grown is now spring wheat, but
> apparently some winter wheat is grown as well.
>
> (4) When YHWH struck Egypt with the 10 plagues, the plague of hail
> destroyed the barley and flax crop, since these are obviously grains
> that ripen early in the season. However, scripture says that the
> WHEAT and the rye, or spelt, were not smitten. That's because they
> where not yet grown up. See Ex. 9:31,32. If you look up the word
> "grown" in Strong's Concordance (this is from the old KJV of the
> Bible), it is #648, which is APHIYL. It is spelled ALEPH FEH YOD
> LAMED. It is the same as #651, or APHEL, spelled ALEPH FEH LAMED. The
> word basically means unripe, from a sense of weakness. Further
> digging suggests that it means "dusky", "darkness", etc. So, you can
> infer from scripture that the wheat and rye not only were not grown
> up, but they were actually in the DARKNESS of the soil. In other
> words, they had not even germinated yet!
>
> (5) The time of this plague of hail on the barley and flax was before
> Passover, but more than likely was sometime earlier in the first
> month of Aviv.
>
> (6) The question now comes down to this... If the wheat crop had not
> even germinated yet in the early part of Aviv, how could you get a
> wheat crop that is ready to pick the firstfruits by the time of the
> traditional Shavuot, which is 50 days after the wave sheaf offering
> during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Even if this plague took place
> on Aviv 1, and the wave sheaf offering wasn't until 5 or 6 days after
> the first day of Unleavened Bread, the most amount of time that is
> transpiring to the traditional 50th day would be about 70 days. If
> wheat takes at least 100 days, and perhaps as much as 120 or 130 days
> to mature, how can you get a wheat harvest, or even the firstfruits
> of the wheat harvest, by the traditional time of Shavuot?
>
> (7) For the above reasons, could the count to Shavuot, or the Feast
> of Weeks, actually be a 99 day count instead of the traditional 50
> day count?
>
> To reiterate, I am not 100% on board with this idea yet, but these
> things definitely have me intrigued.
>
>
>
> Blessings in Yahshua haMashiach,
>
> Dave Dombek
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...



Brother Arnold

See www.lunarsabbath.info

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Watchman555
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Postby Watchman555 » 11 May 2008, 14:15

(7) For the above reasons, could the count to Shavuot, or the Feast
> of Weeks, actually be a 99 day count instead of the traditional 50
> day count?


I don't know if it would be exactly 99 days, but the above reasons are very valid... thanks for sharing Brother Arnold.

Numbers 28:26-31:
26 ‘And on the day of the first-fruits, when you bring a new grain offering to Yahuah at your Festival of Weeks, you have a setapart gathering, you do no servile work. 27 ‘And you shall bring near a burnt offering as a sweet fragrance to Yahuah: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs a year old, 28 with their grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each bull, two-tenths for the one ram, 29 one-tenth for each of the seven lambs, 30 one male goat to make atonement for you, 31 perfect ones they are for you. Prepare them with their drink offerings, besides the continual burnt offering with its grain offering.

Some translations read in verse 26: After your weeks. I don't believe the word "festival" is actually in there. Anyway, if it was after the 7 weeks, it does not seem likely that there would be a new grain available for the new grain offering. If this verse is referring to at your weeks or the beginning of as in the barley harvest, it does not line up with the prescribed offerings in Lev. 23:10-13. It does not line up with the offerings prescribed for the 50 day count in verses 16-21. Which is definitely after the 50 days. So why is there a discrepancy here? Is it possible that the offerings for when the children of Yisra'el "come into the land" was a one time deal? and then after that they would have followed the instructions in Numbers 28:26-31? ? ? In other words, how do we get all these offerings to line up? We know in Numbers it is a new grain offering and we know in Leviticus it is a new grain offering ? ? :?:

Lev. 23:10-21:
10 “Speak to the children of Yisra’el, and you shall say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I give you, and shall reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first-fruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 ‘And he shall wave the sheaf before Yahuah, for your acceptance. On the morrow after the Sabbath the priest waves it. 12 ‘And on that day when you wave the sheaf, you shall prepare a male lamb a year old, a perfect one, as a burnt offering to Yahuah, 13 and its grain offering: two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to Yahuah, a sweet fragrance, and its drink offering: one-fourth of a hin of wine. 14 ‘And you do not eat bread or roasted grain or fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your Elohim – a law forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 15 ‘And from the morrow after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, you shall count for yourselves: seven completed Sabbaths. 16 ‘Until the morrow after the seventh Sabbath you count fifty days, then you shall bring a new grain offering to Yahuah. 17 ‘Bring from your dwellings for a wave offering two loaves of bread, of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour they are, baked with leaven, first-fruits to Yahuah. 18 ‘And besides the bread, you shall bring seven lambs a year old, perfect ones, and one young bull and two rams. They are a burnt offering to Yahuah, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering made by fire for a sweet fragrance to Yahuah. 19 ‘And you shall offer one male goat as a sin offering, and two male lambs a year old, as a peace offering. 20 ‘And the priest shall wave them, besides the bread of the first-fruits, as a wave offering before Yahuah, besides the two lambs. They are set-apart to Yahuah for the priest. 21 ‘And on this same day you shall proclaim a set-apart gathering for yourselves, you do no servile work on it– a law forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

Does anybody else see the conundrum here?

Shalom,
~Greg

chuckbaldwin
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Location: East Ridge, TN

Postby chuckbaldwin » 11 May 2008, 16:56

Hi Greg,

I can see the differences in the offerings for "Weeks" between Lev.23 & Num.28, but i don't know what to make of it. I havn't compared the other Feasts.

I can see the possibility of 2 different Feasts, but in that case, why was one of each selectively omitted from the 2 chapters. It reminds me of Yahshua's last Passover, with the footwashing being omitted from the Synoptic Gospels, and the bread + wine being omitted from John.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

cindy
Posts: 71
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 07:29

Postby cindy » 13 May 2008, 12:02

Shalom Everyone,

I believe I have found the answer to our questions.

It is in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The Temple Scrolls.
An excellent example of these equally spaced festival
days (very formally spaced seven-weeks apart) is recited
on the Temple Scroll, as follows -

1. "..You shall count--seven complete Sabbaths from
the day of your bringing the sheaf of [the wave
offering. You shall c]ount until the morrow of
the seventh Sabbath. You shall count [fifty]
days. You shall bring a new grain-offering...it
is the feast of Weeks and the feast of
Firstfruits, an eterna[l] memorial...
2. You [shall count] seven weeks from the day
when you bring the new grain-offering... seven
full Sabbaths [shall elapse un]til you have
counted fifty days to the morrow of the seventh
Sabbath. [You] shall [bring] new wine for a
drink-offering...
3. [You sha]ll count from that day [for the new
wine offering] seven weeks, seven times (seven
days), forty-nine days; there shall be seven
full Sabbaths; until the morrow of the seventh
Sabbath you shall count fifty days. You shall
then offer new oil…" (From the Temple Scroll--
11QT=11Q19, 20, 4Q365a--XVIII-XXI. The English
translation--as shown--was borrowed from 'The
Complete Dead Sea Scrolls In English', by Geza
Vermes).

A sequence of seven-week festivals can also be
identified from the following scrolls: 4Q325,
4Q326, 4Q327, 4Q394; where English translations
can be found in: 'Dead Sea Scrolls A New
Translation', by Michael Wise, Martin Abegg, Jr.,
and Edward Cook.)



You can read the whole article here.
http://web.archive.org/web/200102121340 ... e2.htm#top

Too, the books listed above can be found in any decent college library.

The New Grain 50th day Pentecost would have happened on Sivan first quarter moon.
The New Wine 50th day Pentecost would have occurred on Av 1 (Acts 2-"They must be filled with new wine").
The New Oil 50th day Pentecost would have occurred on Elul 23 third quarter moon.

I'm not sure if New Moons were counted in the Pentecontad calendar.
There is more to figure out, but we are on the right track

:D

In Yahshua,
Cindy


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