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Michael Rood on lunar sabbath

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kickme
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Michael Rood on lunar sabbath

Postby kickme » 25 Mar 2008, 22:10

I'm not asking for anyone to jump down my throat here, I'm not opening a discussion for any debate either way in this particular thread.
What I am asking for is how in the world co they prove astronomically and mathematically when the sabbath was 2000 years ago?
How is this possibe, and what sources did they use?
The "Lord of the Sabbath" has the Last Word on the "lunar-sabbath"
The Julian calendar, instituted in 45 B.C.E. by Julius Caesar, is the reckoning of time that is utilized for astronomical calculations and for computing events in ancient history. NASA's calculated accuracy for the Julian calendar is measurably better than 1 millionth of a second. The calculations for the Astronomically and Agriculturally Corrected Biblical Hebrew Calendar for dates before 1582 are all calculated and expressed in the Julian mode. The Gregorian calendar was instituted in 1582 to rectify the miscalculation of leap years inherent in the Julian system. Pontifex Maximus Gregory XIII, added 10 days to the calendar at midnight, Thursday, October 4th, which then became Friday, October 15th. The seven-day week, and the seventh day Sabbath have continued uninterrupted from both the Julian and Hebrew reckoning - and it is highly probable that it has continued uninterrupted since it was begun by the Almighty during creation week (Genesis 1&2).

It has been astronomically and mathematically verified that the Sabbath that Yahshua kept Holy is the same day of the week that it is now. The astronomical proofs are precise to 1/1,000,000th of a second, and the mathematical calculations are accurate to within 1/10,000,000th of a day. This irrefutable data constitutes prima facie evidence that the recently concocted "lunar-sabbath" is pure fiction. If Yahshua did not find it necessary to "renovate" the Sabbath when he was here, but meticulously guarded its sanctity, it is presumptuous and impertinent to assume that someone would know more about the "correct" Sabbath than Yahshua did. I am not of the mind to straighten "the Lord of the Sabbath" out concerning this particular issue! Considering the multiple "fatal errors" in the various lunar-sabbath systems which attempt to invent a sabbath that coincides with the phases of the moon, this is by far, the most fatal. I will stick with Yahshua on the seventh day Sabbath. If he is wrong, I will go to the grave in the same error - just to be safe (Matthew 12:1-8).

Messianic believers can be absolutely confident that they are keeping the same Sabbath that the Creator keeps. Contrary to contrived calculations of the new-age lunar-sabbatalogians and neo-Babylonian solar equinox aficionados, there never has been, and there will never be, a time in which the Sabbath is determined by the phases of the moon or the year discerned by astronomical calculations - no matter how convenient.

One must be able to count to seven to be able to determine the Creator's Sabbath. The second witness and a simple test of basic intelligence that must be met is found in Exodus 34:21 "Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest. . ." thus, one must work six days in order to fulfill the commandment and one must also be able to add 6 + 1 to find the number of days in the Creator's "week" - or in Hebrew, "shevua" a linguistic derivative of "sheva" - seven. The seventh day that we are to rest is the seventh in a series of at least seven. The seventh day comes immediately after the sixth day in the series. It would be more convenient for the Creator to give us a ten-day week since we all have ten fingers to count on. A two-week month consisting of ten days each would enlist the help of our ten toes to culminate the counting. France was once under a ten-day week because their revolution, contrary to America's, was based on secular humansim and they wanted no reliance on, or remembrance of the seven-day week that the Creator gave us. With the seven-day week we must use our intellect to count to a number we don't see on our body - or in the sky. Once we learn to count seven days to find the day of rest, also known as the Sabbath day, we will be familiar enough with the divine pattern so that we can count seven years to find the Sabbath year (Lev 25:4). If we can keep up with the pattern long enough to count seven Sabbath years, we can then enjoy the benefits of the Jubilee - or 50th year. Reinforcing the repeating pattern of sevens each spring, we are commanded to count seven Sabbaths from the Firstfruit Offering to arrive at the day following seven Sabbaths, which is the 50th day - the day that we celebrate the Feast of Sevens, or "weeks" (Lev 23:10-21). Notice how the moon, as from the beginning of creation, has absolutely nothing to do with the counting of sevens? It is mathematically impossible to count the yearly or bi-centennial pattern of sevens accurately by using a lunar-sabbath model. Impossible!

The seven-day week has been used all over the world for thousands of years by many cultures dating thousands of years before the Roman Christian era. Though it is not the only work/rest cycle, it is by far the most common cycle on the planet, and has been so, long before the birth of Yahshua. Jews, who were separated by centuries and continents, were all found, without exception, to have been keeping the same seventh day Sabbath.

With the basic intelligence mankind has been endued with from creation, it appears that, as a general rule, the human race is able to count to seven without losing track. If at one time we did loose track of what day it was, the Creator got the entire nation of Israel back on His calendar before we left Egypt along with their contrived 10-day-week and Babylonian solar equinox calendar. We did a pretty good job of getting the planet on His seven-day week, and many people are actually keeping the seventh day holy. But there is a new wind blowing through the cavernous minds of a sugar shocked generation that looks to the moon for answers that could only be found on a mountaintop in the land of Midian. Moses penned those instructions and we still have them with us to this day. We haven't missed a day of work, or rest, since. Frivolous case dismissed!

Those who have so much time on their hands that they feel compelled to calculate new ways to determine the Sabbath, should perhaps try working 6 days. They will be ready for a rest on the seventh day - regardless of the phases of the moon. . .
BTW, this was from an email I received

chuckbaldwin
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M. Rood's statements re lunar Sabbaths

Postby chuckbaldwin » 26 Mar 2008, 03:26

Hi kickme,

Since you don't wish to debate either way, and i don't wish to debate with M. Rood (and BTW i COULD debate either way), i'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for, or if your post was purely informational.

Your question can only be answered by M. Rood himself, since he is the author of what you posted.

I will say that his 1st paragraph is true, except maybe for his unprovable "probability" statement at the end.

His 2nd paragraph mentions the so-called "proofs" that you asked about. He merely makes statements ABOUT the "proofs" without actually saying what those "proofs" are.

The rest of his speech has much rhetoric, but also some alleged historical facts that might ought to be elaborated on further.

You didn't say which side of the fence you're on, but just so you'll know, i'm on the saturday side.
Chuck Baldwin
By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

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Chayil_Ishshah
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Postby Chayil_Ishshah » 26 Mar 2008, 13:22

In 1998, Michael Rood united with " former Way members" Robert Scott Wadsworth and Richard Fike, and published their first Zodiac based calendar. The continually re-corrected, "Corrected Hebrew Calendar," now includes Karaite calculations for what is to be considered the TRUE Hebraic ABIB correctly calculated calendar. Michael Rood calls his often corrected zodiac based "Corrected Hebrew Calendar" , "The Astronomically and Agriculturally Corrected Biblical Hebrew Calendar". In his 2005 Summer Tour with Nehemia Gordon, promoting the anti-Christian writings of the Shem Tov Matthew, they are also promoting the calendar, billed as, The Creator's Calendar and the Restoration of All Things or Raiders of the Lost Book: New Discoveries in the Hebrew Text of Matthew.


http://www.seekgod.ca/roodzodiac.htm
emphases mine

Michael Rood advertisements show that he is often promoted as a Messianic Karaite Rabbi. We find the advertisement of Michael Rood's original 6001 website on other websites, such as:

"Countdown 6001-New Moon Ministries
Messianic karaite Rabbi Rood teaches seminars on Holidays and Temple. Provides teachings and an agriculturally and astronomically corrected Hebrew calendar, based on karaite observation..." 1

Norman Willis's Nazarene Israel site, was used to promote Michael Rood's calendar, while the names of Wadsworth and Fike seemed no longer important.

"SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT CALENDAR - Want an Astronomically and agriculturally correct Israelite calendar using the Scriptural means of reckoning the day of the year, cross-referenced with the Roman calendar date? Michael Rood's Karaite-Messianic calendar is available at www.6001.com. Proceeds go to benefit Rabbi Rood's ministry." 2

An ex-Zen Buddhist Master, and an ex-Taoist divination adept, Norman Willis's Nazarene site also promotes the feasts and Karaite Korner calendar, and he posts letters on Michael Rood's web site while working with Michael:

"...The actual timing of the pilgrimage feasts is dependent upon the barley harvest in Yerushalayim, which can only be determined by waiting upon YHWH. The best source of this information is presently obtained by accessing the Karaite Korner web site, as the Karaites specialize in the agricultural barley calendar issues."

In a newsletter, Willis went so far as to write, asking for funding for the work of their good friend, Nehemiah Gordon, a Karaite:

"Dear Nazarenes,

I was hoping to be in Israel in time for the Aviv barley search, with Nehemiah Gordon of the Karaites. The Ruach (the Spirit) is blocking my travel, and so although I am now unable to go, I believe strongly in what the Karaites do. They determine time the way YHWH says it should be done.
...Given the situation in Israel with the Muslim war, the adventure is very dangerous. It is also expensive, as they are renting armored vehicles for the trip.

We all benefit from the Karaite new moon service. It is for this reason that I ask that if my ministry has been of any service to you at all in the past, will you please consider making a one-time charitable donation to the Karaite Korner, ..."

http://www.seekgod.ca/roodkaraite.htm

emphases mine

I'm only sharing what I googled; nothing more, nothing less. People can see what they want.

love in Messiah,

~dawn

p.s. - not in agreement with any statement made by anyone in conjunction with the Karites and that "they determine time the way it should be done" and that "we all benefit from them" :shock:

kickme
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Postby kickme » 27 Mar 2008, 02:05

well, I guess they just say whatever they like, eh Chayil? Wow, I thought I was bad for spewing before thorough research, looks like I should join the staff at that site, I'd fit right in and get lots of excersize jumping to conclusions.

Chuck, you seemed to have understood what I was asking for, exactly what proofs is Michael Rood offering. As you noted, he speaks of: "astronomically and mathematically verified that the Sabbath that Yahshua kept Holy is the same day of the week that it is now. The astronomical proofs are precise to 1/1,000,000th of a second, and the mathematical calculations are accurate to within 1/10,000,000th of a day. This irrefutable data constitutes prima facie evidence" but doesn't say how he came about such proof, nor does he offer evidence of this proof.
That's what I'm asking for, the proof, and evidence of this proof that everyone can study and either verify or refute.

As far as how I keep sabbath, I'm also a 7 day continual because that's how I see the whole theme working. So far no lunar theory has completely held water in explaination to me. Yes, there are 'blocks' of evidence that hold water, just as there is in the 7 day continual, but neither side can show beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind that they are correct. So I go the way it looks to me the data is leaning.

Now about those proofs...... anyone know of Rood's evidence, or is he just being Rood to us?

withgad
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Rood's A Product Of His Time-So Are Kaarites...

Postby withgad » 30 Mar 2008, 16:56

deleted

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 31 Mar 2008, 02:58

Hi Withgad,

It seems that the above article was truncated, and just when it was getting into a very significant area. That's too bad.

One problem i've found with Bill Dankenbring is that about 2/3 of the content of his more serious articles consists of phychological rhetoric designed to manipulate the minds of his readers.

Another problem is that he isn't on this forum to answer any questions or objections to his writing. He does make some good points, although his oft use of the term "clearly implies" is somewhat of an oxymoron. It can be taken to mean that he's really sure of his interpretation.

With more documented facts and less rhetoric, he might have had a pretty good article.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 01 Apr 2008, 22:45

clearly implies is just another way of people saying "my theory is better than yours"
I'm so done with sword play, it's juvenile.
wow, long article, too bad it got posted as an arguement pro or con one way or another.
This thread was intended strictly to look for evidence of what Rood uses for his infallible calculator.
So, nevermind, spam on

eriqbenel
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Postby eriqbenel » 17 May 2008, 08:50

well, I guess they just say whatever they like, eh Chayil? Wow, I thought I was bad for spewing before thorough research, looks like I should join the staff at that site, I'd fit right in and get lots of excersize jumping to conclusions.

Chuck, you seemed to have understood what I was asking for, exactly what proofs is Michael Rood offering. As you noted, he speaks of: "astronomically and mathematically verified that the Sabbath that Yahshua kept Holy is the same day of the week that it is now. The astronomical proofs are precise to 1/1,000,000th of a second, and the mathematical calculations are accurate to within 1/10,000,000th of a day. This irrefutable data constitutes prima facie evidence" but doesn't say how he came about such proof, nor does he offer evidence of this proof.
That's what I'm asking for, the proof, and evidence of this proof that everyone can study and either verify or refute.

As far as how I keep sabbath, I'm also a 7 day continual because that's how I see the whole theme working. So far no lunar theory has completely held water in explaination to me. Yes, there are 'blocks' of evidence that hold water, just as there is in the 7 day continual, but neither side can show beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind that they are correct. So I go the way it looks to me the data is leaning.

Now about those proofs...... anyone know of Rood's evidence, or is he just being Rood to us?



Shalom Kick me and all,

Michael Rood's "mathematical proof" is rooted in an extremely false premise. I think that Chayil did a good thing by exposing the mindset of Mr. Rood because it gives us an idea of where he is coming from.

The Julian calendar's so-called "accuracy" is still based on "calculation" and not the luminaries. In fact, the luminaries are what this alleged "accuracy" is measured against.

Wouldn't be easier just go by the luminaries themselves instead of trying to create a calendar system that mimics the time of the luminaries?

In other words, if it takes the moon [blank] hours and seconds to orbit the earth, and I create my own calendar system that would have a "month" be very close to the same time as the moon takes, that doesn't make my calendar just as good as YHWH's. Why re-invent the wheel? JUST USE THE MOON.

This is Michael Rood's problem, he believes that just because the Julian calendar crerators have come up with a system that mimics the revolutions of astronomical objects, it makes the Julian system "correct". That is not so! Only the luminaries are "correct", and a copy-cat version just won't cut it.

But if he really did his homework, he would know that even our current Roman based calendar is off by 1 day every 3280 years. That mean's, if the Julian calendar had started 4000 years ago, operating in the exact same manner as today, it would be at least "1 day" off from the luminaries. By the same token, if you START today and GO BACK 4000 years, it is "1 day off". OR if you skip AHEAD 4000 years, it is "1 day" off. All of this proves that the current system is NOT on par with YHWH's system, creation, the true Sabbath, or the practices of YHWH's ancient peoples.

Eriq
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 17 May 2008, 21:04

eriqbenel wrote:The Julian calendar's so-called "accuracy" is still based on "calculation" and not the luminaries. In fact, the luminaries are what this alleged "accuracy" is measured against.

Wouldn't be easier just go by the luminaries themselves instead of trying to create a calendar system that mimics the time of the luminaries?
This is just an answer, NOT an argument. Granted the Julian calendar was inaccurate, but we have much more accurate and useful info available now. We need this info mainly for scheduling the next Feast: asking time off from work, reserving meeting room, telling people when to reserve motel rooms, etc. Remember that most employers & motels still use the Gregorian calendar.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

kickme
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Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 18 May 2008, 02:13

seems somehow there's got to be a way to properly calculate time in reverse, wonders me if our fixation with calendars doesn't trip us up somehow

chuckbaldwin
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Postby chuckbaldwin » 18 May 2008, 06:14

kickme wrote:seems somehow there's got to be a way to properly calculate time in reverse, wonders me if our fixation with calendars doesn't trip us up somehow
Hi Kickme,

Calculating either backward or forward assumes that nothing has ever (or will ever) change, such as a meteor or asteroid or comet striking earth, and slowing down or speeding up its orbit. Ignoring that, the USNO has pretty accurate calculations, taking into account all the information currently available.

And i agree completely with the last part of your statement. I'm almost resigned to Joey's concept of appointing someone by lot as "gatekeeper", and just agree to abide by that person's decisions as far as the calendar (with perhaps certain reservations). If that were done, then we could devote more time to discussing other, and perhaps more urgent, subjects.
Chuck Baldwin

By this shall all men know you are my disciples: if you have love one for another.

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 18 May 2008, 10:14

the gatekeeper will be here soon, will we be ready?


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