"The fear of יהוה is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Set-apart One is understanding"

polygyny

Moderator: Watchman555

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Re: for the sake of pleasing flesh

Postby kickme » 05 Feb 2008, 01:22

Luneee wrote:The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.

In other words, this is one of, if not THE main thing for a man.

Jay Vincent.

I resent that. It's just no reason to get married. If that's what it's all about, then we might as well just be animals
Nope, if that's THE main thing, no wonder so much pain is to be had in relationships

Luneee
Posts: 107
Joined: 12 Jan 2008, 02:45
Location: Acts 17:28

Re: for the sake of pleasing flesh

Postby Luneee » 05 Feb 2008, 01:44

kickme wrote:I resent that. It's just no reason to get married. If that's what it's all about, then we might as well just be animals
Nope, if that's THE main thing, no wonder so much pain is to be had in relationships


1. Why resent it?

2. Sex is no reason to get married? I have to admit, I have never heard this position. Please explain more about whether or not consummating the marriage was one of the FIRST things you did. (I waited until marriage to consummate, so this may be the difference in opinions, I don't know.)

3. I didn't say "that's what it's all about." There are other very important issues to marriage, but sex is at the top of the list for most of the guys I have ever talked with.

4. It's an opinion. People have opinions. My opinion isn't binding on you, any more than yours is on me.

5. The word "cleave" in the scriptures means "stick" or "adhere to." It (sex) is the very act of marriage, so I would posit that marriage absent sex is not a marriage scripturally, but I don't resent you for saying anything you said. (Re: #2, this is why the term consummation of the marriage is commonly known. It means "sealing the deal.")

6. Relax...


Jay Vincent.

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 05 Feb 2008, 01:54

YHWHsavesdotcom wrote:Perhaps eriq, but I would suggest that since none of us are perfect, we merely strive toward the perfection for which we have been created, that if in fact there is not complete harmony in our home (which is difficult enough with but one wife) then perhaps we are not bringing him any glory at all by having more; and by so doing we sin...and why? for the sake of pleasing flesh rather than spirit?! :shock:


I agree. We should not intentionally introduce strife into our homes.

However, there would not be such a great potential for strife if the mindsets of men and women were more correctly in tune with the concept of multiple wives. It isn't having plural wives that is the problem with "perfection", it is the erroneous, selfish mindsets of the participants that can disrupt "harmony".

In other words, "harmony" is in the control of the "people" involved, not the "practice" of polygamy.

Therefore, Jay is correct. A man could be "pleasing the flesh" if he only takes ONE wife. It is in the person, not the practice.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,

Eriq

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 05 Feb 2008, 02:07

i used to have very strong objections against
the multi-wife issue, misjuding it, and being
very vocal about that. But Yahuah showed me kindness
and told me to not judge those who choose that lifestyle.



But that does not make the view i hold less Scriptural ---
and it is in fact, Scriptural, and is in fact Yahuah's
original design.


These statements are sort of contradictory. If your view is "Scriptural", and is YHWH's design, then how were you "misjudging" those who believe the opposite?

Both can't be right. So either you were right or you were wrong. If you were right, then you judged "rightly". If you were wrong, then your view is NOT Scriptural.

It's okay to take a stand if you believe your view is Scriptural, just be ready to admit that you were wrong if it turns out you were.

And TW, you are wrong. That was NOT YHWH's original design. To use the term "original" implies that His design was "modified" over time. This cannot be so.

YHWH is immutable and has not, cannot, and will not ever change His "design". So if it was wrong "originally", then it is ALWAYS wrong. You cannot possibly prove in Scripture, that it was ALWAYS wrong. Therefore, it was not "originally" wrong.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 05 Feb 2008, 02:42

In reference to sex being the "main thing". Kick me wrote:

I resent that. It's just no reason to get married. If that's what it's all about, then we might as well just be animals
Nope, if that's THE main thing, no wonder so much pain is to be had in relationships


Lunee replied:

2. Sex is no reason to get married? I have to admit, I have never heard this position.


I agree Jay. Chosen quoted 1 Cor 7:8-9, which specifically states that sex IS a reason! So if Scripture says it's a reason, why isn't it?

Didn't kick me write?:

of course we all marry for lust. then again, look closely at the definition of the word translated lust.
lust in and of it'self is not evil, it's only even when it is covetous of something that belongs to someone else.

Now, back to the fact we all marry for lust, and should. If one does not greatly desire their companion, they best not be with them.


That also seems to contradict his later statement of resentment.

It is just bad ideology for people to act as if sex is some sort of "unspiritual" act of "flesh". Making it sound like something bad!

Who is it that designed sex?

Who designed it to feel good?

Who created the "desire" for sex in men and women?

Who's idea was it that men would generally have a greater "desire" for it than women and toward women?

Who designed sex to be the binding seal of marriage?

The answer to all of the above is, YHWH.

If a man marries multiple women to satisfy his sexual appetite, so what? At least he has not sinned by committing fornication or adultery.

A man can remain righteous to YHWH by "MARRYING" rather than "burning" with unlawful lust toward women.

Think about this statement ( I got this from someone else, but it's right):

A man could sleep with 3, 6, 10 women and get them all pregnant. Run off into the sunset, not take care of his children and escape without penalty. Not by the "christian church" or the "law of the land".

By let that same man "marry" those 3, 6, 10 women and be a husband and father, then everybody is ready to throw him under the bus! Jail!

Truth be told, many, many men have had "more than one wife", but the wife they live with just doesn't know it! Do get upset, you all know it's true.

So why do "most" men (I'm sure its nobody on this forum :wink: ) cheat? Is it because most men are "dogs"? No.

I say it is because the programming of our society forces men and women to live under a system that is "against" YHWH's design.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 05 Feb 2008, 03:21

did you do a word study on the word lust?
it's not what society has lead you to believe

Torahwoman
Posts: 69
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 23:42
Location: moving
Contact:

Postby Torahwoman » 05 Feb 2008, 15:59

Shalom,
Brother Eriq, you've given no Scriptural proof
that the view i hold is "wrong" (it isn't), yet you continue
to adamantly criticize my 'food' with only assumptions/opinions.

i read Brother Greg's post -- and it should be well-noted
by all of us here, as i know some who truly do take it to heart.
It is straight from Scripture, straight from
Yahuah's own Word -- Yahusha Mashyach -- dare anyone
not be convicted by that?
i took it to my own heart first, as a gentle reminder
to remain to be cautious about not judging others --
and well that it should convict anyone who desires to listen to Him
and not to broadcasting attitudes of "no, i'm right and you're wrong".
You claim that you're simply sharing, and how it's ok to express
opposing views, and sternness is necessary at times --- all well
and proper, IF you're sticking to Scripture and not opinions.
But you haven't done that in this. Where is the Scriptural proof
that "one wife for one man" was not His original plan?
If you give proof, that will be certainly considered
and prayed (not preyed) upon.

All i did in the first place, was to express that it simply
is not my choice to be a part of a 'multi-wife' household,
and you judged it as unclean ''food'' -- which
it is not.
i don't judge you, nor am i judging anyone who chooses that
lifestyle -- it simply is not my choice. i do not stumble over
the view i hold, nor am i stumbling over the choice others make.
If it works for them, great. May He bless them wonderfully.
In the choice i shall make, it shall also work for me, and i shall be
wonderfully blessed by Him also.

i am not under any deluding influence in this issue,
and i continue to speak into captivity
to obedience to Yahusha Mashyach
that which speaks against
Yahuah's Word.
2 Cor. 10:3-5.
Ps. 139:1 "O YaHUaH You have searched me and know me."

eriqbenel
Posts: 269
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 20:28
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Contact:

Postby eriqbenel » 06 Feb 2008, 01:34

Shalom,
Brother Eriq, you've given no Scriptural proof
that the view i hold is "wrong" (it isn't), yet you continue
to adamantly criticize my 'food' with only assumptions/opinions.


Well, suffice to say that you cannot present ONE single Scripture that speaks against it. And you haven't even tried, I don't remember any post of yours that was anything accept "opinions".

But if you would like to explore the Scriptures on this subject, I'd be happy to.

i read Brother Greg's post -- and it should be well-noted
by all of us here, as i know some who truly do take it to heart.
It is straight from Scripture, straight from
Yahuah's own Word -- Yahusha Mashyach -- dare anyone
not be convicted by that?


I am not sure what this means. Please be more specific.

i took it to my own heart first, as a gentle reminder
to remain to be cautious about not judging others --
and well that it should convict anyone who desires to listen to Him
and not to broadcasting attitudes of "no, i'm right and you're wrong".


If one is wrong, they just are. No need to take offense. A person who can admit they were wrong is someone who is smarter than they were yesterday, thats all.

You claim that you're simply sharing, and how it's ok to express
opposing views, and sternness is necessary at times --- all well
and proper, IF you're sticking to Scripture and not opinions.
But you haven't done that in this. Where is the Scriptural proof
that "one wife for one man" was not His original plan?
If you give proof, that will be certainly considered
and prayed (not preyed) upon.


Point well taken sister. I'd be happy to. Would you be so kind as to point me in the direction of the Scripture that says "one wife for one man"? I'd be delighted to address it.

All i did in the first place, was to express that it simply
is not my choice to be a part of a 'multi-wife' household,
and you judged it as unclean ''food'' -- which
it is not.
i don't judge you, nor am i judging anyone who chooses that
lifestyle -- it simply is not my choice.


This is simply another "unscriptural view". We are allowed, and indeed compelled to "judge" one another's words and actions against the Scriptures. We we are NOT allowed to "judge" is another's person's value and gifts as it relates to eternal salvation.

In other words, who is "worthy" of the Kingdom... Who should go to hell... Who should be chosen as a leader, prophet, etc... These things only YHWH "judges".


i do not stumble over
the view i hold, nor am i stumbling over the choice others make.
If it works for them, great. May He bless them wonderfully.
In the choice i shall make, it shall also work for me, and i shall be
wonderfully blessed by Him also.


:?: :?: :?:

This makes no sense to me. How can you want YHWH to "bless someone wonderfully" that is engaged in an "Un-Scriptural" practice??????

YHWH is not going to "bless" that! We should hope that such a one would repent...

i am not under any deluding influence in this issue,
and i continue to speak into captivity
to obedience to Yahusha Mashyach
that which speaks against
Yahuah's Word.
2 Cor. 10:3-5.


Ok. I suggest we dispense with speeches of righteous indignation and let's look at the Scripture. Oh, wait! You have given a Scripture... Unfortunately, the Scripture you gave has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

I respectfully request we begin with the
"one man for one wife" Scripture you believe illustrates your view. You'll have to post it because I can't find it.
Shalom in the name of YHWH,



Eriq

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 06 Feb 2008, 01:50

I think she's trying to say she has no problem per se with polygyny, but that she used to have a problem with it. Then Yahweh_shua helped her deal with it in her heart in relationship to those around her who believe differently, and that's what's changed. She just doesn't want to live that lifestyle herself.
In many ways, I don't blame her one bit. Relationships are hard. More people brings more dynamics, and possibilites of more challenges. These could be overcome, but so many times, flesh wins and we fail.

My curiosity then would be peaked to know what would happen if, say, 10 years after she got married, if her husband would decide it would be appropriate for whatever reason, what would happen? Would she pitch a fit, or follow him as her head?
To me, that would be the true test of relationship.

I really don't know that I like the term that monogamy was Yahweh's 'original intent' or 'original design'. That's us putting our assumptions into his thoughts, and he never said one way or another. What if he had made several women for Adam, would that mean by design that monogamy was evil, and all men should and must marry multiple women? That would be absolutely absurd. Neither celibacy, polygyny nor monogamy is any more or less righteous in and of it'self.


OK, moving on. As far as physical desire, of course that is part of marriage, and it's important. Don't misunderstand when I say that's not THE thing. It exists, it is a thing, but should not be THE thing. Wonderful thing, yes, primary thing, NO, never should be.

BrotherArnold
Posts: 327
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 23:22
Location: Conyers, GA
Contact:

Postby BrotherArnold » 06 Feb 2008, 01:59

RESPONSE; I knew this was going to be a long discussion and it is not over yet. I will not participate too much in it but stand by my original quote “to my knowledge and many years of studying the Scriptures, I have never seen one place where YHWH said one negative thing against having more than one wife.â€
Lunar Sabbaths is one of the most provable doctrines in Scripture...

Brother Arnold
See www.lunarsabbath.info

Luneee
Posts: 107
Joined: 12 Jan 2008, 02:45
Location: Acts 17:28

Postby Luneee » 06 Feb 2008, 02:01

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this thread any more.

My statements are resented, and I don't know why.

(I asked, but the resenter didn't answer.)

:(

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 06 Feb 2008, 04:06

Luneee wrote:I probably shouldn't weigh in on this thread any more.

My statements are resented, and I don't know why.

(I asked, but the resenter didn't answer.)

:(
but I thought I did answer
^_^ wrote: OK, moving on. As far as physical desire, of course that is part of marriage, and it's important. Don't misunderstand when I say that's not THE thing. It exists, it is a thing, but should not be THE thing. Wonderful thing, yes, primary thing, NO, never should be.

Guess maybe resent is not quite the proper word, yet it is. It's not you I resent, Luneee, it's the 'status quo' opinion that the only reason a man would take more than 1 wife is for sexual reasons. Nope, I don't think it's the main reason any man should get married. Sure, it's part of how the human race is wired (yeah, both male and female) but I just don't know any successful relationship built primarily on physical. To be sure, it happens, but to be a primary motivator, I just don't see it.

Torahwoman
Posts: 69
Joined: 19 Oct 2007, 23:42
Location: moving
Contact:

Postby Torahwoman » 06 Feb 2008, 05:45

Shalom, all....

The thing about soapboxes is... they're slippery.
Been there, done that.
Faw down, go boom. No likey.
So yes, i can share that strictly on a cautionary
basis, while i dig beam fragments out of my eye ---
i'm not judging or making accusations toward/about
anyone...
my fingers are already too busy applying
Yahuah's 'salve' to my self-inflicted wounds.

i remain, your sister in Yahusha Mashyach.
Have shalom, keep shalom.
i pray, Yahuah Most High bless and have compassion
on us all !

Penny
"O Yahuah, You have searched me and know me."
Ps. 139:1 "O YaHUaH You have searched me and know me."

kickme
Posts: 132
Joined: 29 Dec 2007, 18:48

Postby kickme » 06 Feb 2008, 10:40

Awww, sis t-dub, I do so lurve you.
where you been lately anyway?

kathybyers2000
Posts: 103
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 13:32
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Lust - (Luneee ?)

Postby kathybyers2000 » 06 Feb 2008, 13:41

I would really like for you to share with me your understanding of the word lust. You encourage us to do the word study our selves but I would ask for you to just bless us with your understanding and trust that YHWH will take us in to that truth when it is time. If not, no big deal (or you might see me say - so be it) it won't make or break me. I was just curious to understand you a bit more.

Shalom,

kathy


Return to “Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron